TOP CMO: Kyle Lacy, Jellyfish - 'The Art of Experiential Marketing'
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 00:00
To have great marketing you need to have great taste. And you could tell when somebody understands how to design something that people want to wear.
Ben Kaplan 00:08
This is the podcast where we go around the globe to interview marketing leaders from the world's biggest brands, fastest growing companies and most disruptive startups.
Ben Kaplan 00:23
This is TOP CMO.
Jackson Carpenter 00:29
Today I'm speaking with Kyle Lacy, CMO of Jellyfish, an engineering management platform that provides organizational visibility, analyzes signals and optimizes resource allocation. Kyle has over 15 years of experience in digital marketing, graphic design and sales enablement. He most recently served as SVP of marketing at seismic a platform that empowers sales teams to engage with customers and drive revenue. He's also held marketing leadership roles at lessonly. In Salesforce, he founded his own marketing company mindframe. He's also written three books on social media marketing, CRM, and branding. So how to surprise and delight make good marketing. Great. How do the challenges facing marketing teams evolve as a company scales and is AI overhyped? Let's find out with Kyle Lacy. Kyle Lacy, thanks for joining us on the TOP CMO podcast. Thanks for having me. And for those who aren't familiar, Kyle, you are the CMO of a Jellyfish. For those who don't know give us that elevator pitch for Jellyfish. Jellyfish
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 01:37
is used to help. engineering teams manage their productivity and efficiency across everything from allocations of time to delivery the product to team effectiveness and team health to managing you know whether or not Gen AI tools are doing what they say they can do through coding, you can think about it in terms of an easier way to put it would be the sales force for r&d. That was the original mission. That's still the mission today.
Jackson Carpenter 02:09
And who's your target audience for that? Are you selling directly to engineering teams? Or who are you selling to
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 02:13
engineering leaders, engineering managers, CTOs, CEOs? DevOps? There's quite a few different types. But it's usually r&d teams,
Jackson Carpenter 02:23
and there's a marketer, how are you reaching them
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 02:25
a lot of different ways. I can, we have podcasts like you're doing we've got, we make a lot of, we spend a lot of time and energy on events in person events. We spent a lot of time and energy and virtual events, we spent a lot of energy and content production we have, we're one of the only companies that have an internal research team that has a bunch of PhDs trying to figure out how to make engineering leaders lives easier than the future community development. And then of course, the more tactical like the paid paid advertising, as well as social. I mean, we do everything pretty much
Jackson Carpenter 03:07
of the channels you're using. Kyle, I'm curious if there are any, that are really standout, anything that that you've tried that you like, man, we would, we would do that every day of the week. And anything you you've found that you thought was going to work for growing Jellyfish that really kind of fell on its face,
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 03:25
the two channels that I would invest more time and energy in, in person events work really well. And outbound sales works really well for us too. Surprisingly, especially for the use case that we're selling to, you know, what, doesn't work as well, which wasn't as much of a surprise. But the paid advertising. I mean, it's, it's very different than selling, selling and marketing to an engineer is very different than selling and marketing to you and me, are a sales leader. There's there's more questions. They don't trust advertising. So things that have worked for me, the past just don't work as well here. And that's
Jackson Carpenter 04:04
why you see, you know, these kind of high touch in person events, things that let you build trust face to face are helpful.
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 04:12
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, they're helpful no matter who you're selling to, I think people generally I think events work really well. They just work. They work better than they ever have for me for this specific company and persona.
Jackson Carpenter 04:27
And how do you stand I mean, you're doing in person events. Now I've done I've done trade shows and events for much of my career. And one of the challenges that you know, we constantly are trying to overcome is how do you stand out at an event How do you make the event how do you how do you center Jellyfish in the conversation, that event where there might be a lot going on? There's
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 04:48
two avenues trade show and private dinners. We do a lot of private dinners. They work really well. Really easy to differentiate because you have a have, you have a partner that is driving attendance as well as your driving attendance, and it's really easy to have these conversations. On the from the trade show perspective, I've always believed that great market to have great marketing, you need to have great taste, which means that without great design, and without great brands, you're just going to be another booth, you're just going to be another lanyard that somebody has to look at. So I always differentiate with design and surprising and delighting people with things that they don't expect, like you might expect a Yeti or something at a booth, if you come or you get put into a contest to win a gift card, you know, we're more likely to hand you a Lego set, or a card game than we are. Here's a t shirt, and a Yeti.
Jackson Carpenter 05:53
And part of that knowing your audience, right, knowing that engineers are going to be excited about Legos. And well,
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 05:58
I've done Legos past three companies, and they work every time no matter who I'm selling to. Because it's it's different. It's different. You have to spend, you know, it's easy for me to go get a t shirt produce and my logo on a Yeti. That's easy, people can do that all day long. It is not easy to design something that can surprise and delight somebody. And I even just I haven't point to swag is a great example. If you don't, you can tell when a marketer has great tastes and when they don't. And you can also tell when a marketer thinks they have great tastes, and they don't. So I don't know I'm very passionate about this idea that design. And the experience that the prospects or customers having with the brand is paramount no matter what you're doing. And so you can't do what everybody else is doing.
Jackson Carpenter 06:51
I actually love love that insight. And in particular talking about swag, I remember in a previous role that I had our marketing team, rather than going through any one of the you know, sort of myriad shops where you can just have 1000 Cheap, Hanes T shirts printed, we actually worked with a manufacturer in China, where we would find stuff from brand names like Patagonia that we really liked, we would send it to them, they would take it apart, stitch by stitch, figure out how to reverse engineer it for us make it in the colors we needed. And then we could have all that was put on customer and it was certainly much more expensive, right? But that that kind of find detailed kind of attention to creating a beautiful product, even if it's just swag that you're never going to charge anyone for definitely made a difference in people's impression of the brand. I love that.
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 07:40
Right? When people want to wear what you produce, like they would Fiori or another clothing brand like you've, you've done what you're supposed to do now do I think that it drives pipeline and deals and company growth, probably. But I'm not going to go to my team and say, hey, you need to make sure we have an ROI on that cool shirt, you just decide. Because the rising tide lifts all ships no matter what. But you can tell when it's a crappy t shirt. And you can tell when somebody understands how to design something that people want to wear. Or people want to use or people want to play with or whatever like there's marketing is about surprising and delighting the people you're trying to sell. And that's that's basically it. It's not easy, easier to say, harder to do.
Jackson Carpenter 08:32
I'm sure that you as as much as anyone is observed in the world of marketing, this almost hyper fixation on attribution. For such a long time, it seems as though much of marketing existed in the realm of woowoo and fluff. And increasingly, there's a desire on the part of many marketers sort of attribute ROI to every single activity. And what I hear you saying is there are some activities like making a beautiful t shirt or going out of your way to give Legos that surprise and delight people at your booth. That might not be easy to attribute. If you were making the case to a company leader who might be saying yeah, but like, how are we going to measure the ROI on this? What would you tell them? It's
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 09:16
been what I've been doing the past seven years, you take a large percentage of your budget and attribute it to revenue and pipeline. The rest of it. So let's say 70 80% of your budget goes through demand activities that generate pipeline that you use a direct source attribution model, or a multi touch attribution model. I don't really care what model you use. And then that 20 to 30%. You you you do for a logical, creative, surprising campaigns or deliverables. Now, the caveat here is if you walk into a leadership meeting, and you're talking to About the cool t shirt and the website, you just redesign and you all missed your bookings number, you're screwed. And you should be, you know, I. So that's kind of how I frame it, use a large percentage of the budget to own a pipeline and revenue number as a marketer gives you a seat at the table. And then you can start talking about these cool campaigns you want to do because you're actually driving a bookings and pipeline number. It's the tone deaf marketing leaders that walk in the room and talk all about brand, when they're questioned about attribution.
Jackson Carpenter 10:33
That's a spectacular point and one that I think bears sort of underlining here that you can't neglect the reason that, you know, your your salary and your team's budget is justified. Because doing cool stuff. Yeah,
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 10:48
or, or you're coming in to a leadership meeting, celebrating the fact you did something and sales quota is at quota attainments at 45%. Like, you just can't, you cannot do that. And I And I'm saying that out loud. Because there's too many marketers that still do, they still celebrate the things that don't drive revenue and bookings first. And that's why our average tenure and high growth software is like 1618 months as a CMO, because we're not aligned to the business. If
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Jackson Carpenter 12:07
You came to Jellyfish following a great career. You've worked to places like lessonly, Salesforce, among others. You've also been an entrepreneur yourself. And I wonder if that perspective might might inform how you think about this. Could you tell us a little bit about your entrepreneurial experience and how that may have shaped your philosophy as a marketer?
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 12:27
Yeah, I mean, I couldn't get a job out of college. So I started doing design, I taught myself graphic design. I was I went to school. As a marketing major, I actually what's funny, this is a side note, but I one Young Alumni of the Year for my university. And they put graphic design as my degree on the award, even though I graduated from the business school. Other than their their lack of attention to detail. You know, I taught myself design and then I couldn't get a job really. And then I finally convinced this young woman named Lorraine ball, who had an agency brought me in to do graphic design. And she actually mentored me to start another agency out of her office, even though we were kind of competitors. And that's where I that's how I originally got into entrepreneurship. My dad's been an entrepreneur for 40 years. So it's kind of like built into the family. But I think it was that being raised in a creative household being raised with in a with a father that was that was in music business, and involved in more the creative aspects, kind of helped me fully understand what sells things. And then I just I'm I'm very, I'm obsessed with this idea of experience more experiential marketing. I mean, the first book I picked up and read was, I'm gonna butcher his name, but was Mark Kobe wrote a book called Emotional branding in the 90s. I think that I've read 10 times because it's all about product design, why the coke bottles shaped the way it is, like all this stuff. And I think just being having an agency and having to produce things for people and create things for people, it kind of ingrain this idea that you have to be different. And that and I learned that being mid 20s trying to compete in an agency world, I was highly unlikely to get hired, competing with like people that had agencies that have been around for 20 years. Right. So pivoting and differentiating was something I learned pretty quickly.
Jackson Carpenter 14:37
I think there are a lot of people in our audience who may find themselves now in the position you were in when you were, you know, starting an agency inside another agency and they're they they aspire maybe one day to sit where you're sitting they look the amazing things you've accomplished and say, you know, how do I make this transition from, you know, being a solopreneur to actually being Qing into a spectacular corporate role. And could you talk a little bit of that journey and how you how you made that happen?
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 15:07
Yeah, I got really lucky that I fell into selling or selling social media products at the company I had started. Because we couldn't, it was hard for us to compete with the big agencies, which I'd already mentioned. So I started talking about MySpace, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter. And I was young enough, and I knew enough that that differentiated us enough in the market that I started getting work from it. And, you know, I don't, I think luck has a lot to do with careers and trajectory of careers. But I was doing social media, boot camps, and 22,009 2010. And a neighbor of somebody that was in the boot camp was an editor at Wiley. And that's how I got my first book deal with Wiley because the neighbors were together. And she was complaining about how she couldn't find a Twitter author. And this person happened to be in a boot camp of mine. And so when I got the book deal, my first huge major client was exact target, which was a huge email marketing company here in Indianapolis. And because I specialized in something, when my business failed miserably, which is a whole nother podcast, exact target, offered me a job, because I was I had surprised and delighted the people that I was working with that exact target. So, you know, I think a lot of it has to do with being at the right place at the right time, being able to take risks, and try to I mean, our first product was MySpace pages for churches, and we sold zero like, but it led into more of a bootcamp mentality that I sold a lot of. So long story short, I, you, you have to tell a different story that everybody else that if you're a solopreneur, and you want to get a job, target the companies you want to work with and do do fractional work. And if you do what you're supposed to do, and that company grows, because you're good at marketing, or you're good at whatever, you're, whatever you're selling, you have higher potential to get a job in the future.
Jackson Carpenter 17:20
Now you've had the experience of scaling a company to $300 million, and then exiting. And I imagine that's a wild journey. I'd be interested in hearing a little bit about that, and how the problems you faced as a marketer evolved over the course of that journey? Because I think at the beginning, the types of problems you're dealing with are probably very different than the problems that you know, we're facing you on exit day.
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 17:44
Yeah, so So caveat, we scaled the company to 30 million revenue and sold it for 300 million. We didn't, I did not scale that thing to 300 million. That's a very different type of scale. So just a caveat there. The company you're talking about is less than language I was at for five years. It was my first market leadership role. I went, I was at a VC firm. And that VC firm was invested in lessonly. When I decided to leave that VC firm, it was my first VP of marketing role. And so the learnings came, I mean, every single executive at that company at the time were first time executives, all of us, none of us had done it before. And so when you have that mentality, I think it's a much easier process to deal with the ebbs and flows. And transitioning quickly, if you see a challenge putting out fires that type of stuff, because everybody's in the same boat. For me, it was more as you grow as revenue scales rapidly, how do you hire and build a marketing team out that supports different aspects of scale? For example, I learned pretty quickly that one of one of my biggest mistakes ultimately was not hiring a, a experienced product marketer earlier. Because an experienced product marketer would have helped us segment, move into different industries move out market, understand enterprise more readily have better enablement for the sales team. You know, I also realized the true value of a strong culture built from the beginning. Because we had a lot of people stick around for a long time, no matter the pain and suffering we were going through as we were growing. And then at a certain point in the growth I learned pretty quickly that you have to transition to more expansion and making sure that you're launching different products that drive more to drive an increase in revenue from your customer base. And that wasn't something that I normally that I would normally think about even though I experienced that exact target but the Euro An exact target, I'm pretty sure we hired 500 people. So it was very different type of scale than lessonly.
Jackson Carpenter 20:06
When you're hiring that scale, and there are people you're hiring, who should know more than you do about the thing they do? How do you vet them for skills that you don't have
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 20:17
my go to, I don't do it as much anymore. But my go to over the past. I mean, hell, it's been 10 years now. They always do a presentation at the end of an interview cycle. And I start the interview process, saying, Hey, I just want you to know, if all worlds align and you get through the interview process, I'm going to be asking you to do a presentation of your first 90 days based off of all the conversations you've had. So the whole point, there's a two prong approach to this number one is listening, figuring out their listening skills, and whether they can take in information and actually repeat it out in a meaningful way. And the second is how they would build out their skill set based off of everybody they've met on the team. I have used that regularly, and it has worked for me. Because no matter what, as a marketer, you need to be a good listener. And that kind of sauces out whether somebody can do it. And then it allows you to hone in on what they're really good at. But you can also do that through multiple projects you do through the interview site, all the different questions you ask, but for me, that's my go to is the presentation depending on what I'm learning.
21:35
Okay, so here's what I'm thinking. It's a Western with a sci fi twist. But there's also a film noir plot running in the background. And dinosaurs because why not right? Take the dinosaurs down a little bit. Okay, no dinosaurs. But a little bit of romance is always welcome.
22:11
And some BS, yeah, we have to throw some zombies in there. Your vision, our craft, topthoughtleader.com. I can't listen to the first draft again, back to the show.
Jackson Carpenter 22:28
Shifting gears a little bit. I think you'll agree that AI stands to be the most disruptive force in marketing. And I'm sure you get this question a lot now. But I'm curious what AI trends you think marketers should be paying more attention to,
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 22:42
I would argue is paying too much attention to too many trends in AI, where I think AI is going to be the most disruptive in the next year or two this content production.
Jackson Carpenter 22:57
And what do you think is the most overhyped, overhyped trend in AI? Video,
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 23:03
no offensive video vendors out there? Like the idea that I'm gonna go and you know, somebody might play this interview for me a year from now and be like, You were wrong, old man. But I think that this idea that you can put in a bunch of prompts and create something as meaningful as a Nike ad campaign or a product demo that moves people. I think it's far fetched, it's going to happen. It's going to happen. But I think the the near term is content production, no matter what you're talking about blogs, ebooks, articles, CEO pages, everything, you know, outbound emails, social, all that stuff. I think copywriters are gonna have a hard time in the foreseeable future,
Jackson Carpenter 23:51
I think with when it comes to the less so video. Yeah, because I don't think it's as inundated but certainly at least with with images, I, for one feel just like incredibly fatigued with the amount of obvious AI images that are just, you know, pervading every scope of my digital life. And I think a lot of people feel that way. And so I think it's a fair point to say, you know, you can tell and you want a really authentic image. And that's a really authentic video that's hard to get at least right now with AI.
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 24:26
Yeah, it is. I am burned out on it. I do think photography. I mean, I the headshot I use his AI you know, I went and paid the $15 and got like 80 headshots and had like my hands all screwed up on half of them and, but there were like four or five in there that I thought, hey, actually not bad. And so I just, I go back to I don't know if you remember the IF listeners if you don't remember you need to search for it. Where a guy taught a bot To like, review all the Olive Garden commercials and then write a commercial. That's amazing. I haven't seen that. You need to look it up because it is hilarious. Now this was this was like eight years ago. And it was terrible. Like, it was hilarious, but it was terrible. But I do think that this idea that creative content production is gonna get taken over there, there will always be a place for creatives. But when I can use chat GPT, to tell my son a story that's actually decent that they enjoy without any prompting other than like a couple of words. For me. That's pretty powerful. And it will change the way we think about creativity. For sure,
Jackson Carpenter 25:41
I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who has delegated bedtime stories to Chad GPT. I've, I've done that as well. And
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 25:49
I enjoy it. It's like a choose your own adventure, which is great.
Jackson Carpenter 25:53
So you talk a lot about the disruption that AI will pose is posing now to copywriting. How can marketers do a better job integrating AI into their copywriting workflows? What What can they be doing better? I know that some of the big concerns that people face are like, am I going to is Google gonna penalize me for using AI written copy, for example? Or is it really going to be valuable and impactful if it's written by AI, and I wonder how you think about sort of doing quality control on on judging fee produce.
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 26:29
So I think about it the same way, as engineers are thinking about GitHub, co pilot, all these all these coding tools, it's an assistant, it's not the the end all, be all, it's an assistant. So, hey, if I want to try to make something sound more human, and I think that a copy on a website sounds like it was written by a technical person, I put it into the chat GPT, give it some prompts and see what spits it out, I think where people are going to get in trouble is when you don't have any quality assurance over the content you're producing through these tools. You know, we use it as it's an easy way to get to the 25% of the content, or 30 or 40% of the content we need. And then a human comes in and cleans it up. The tools are only going to get better. So it's just a matter. I just think that when you when you take it at face value, like the people using it for LinkedIn posts and commenting on LinkedIn right now, it's very clear when they don't edit it. And they just use it from chat, GPC, or from any tool, any any AI tool. So my advice is you use it as an assistant like you would anything else to get you halfway there. And then make sure that you're spending time editing. Because again, going back to the very beginning of this conversation, great marketing is not automated. Great marketing is hard, and it should be hard. And it should be difficult. You know, you can't, you can't automate great taste and you can't automate great marketing,
Jackson Carpenter 28:18
how do you go about sort of cultivating great taste? I think this is something that's it's hard to teach. I don't know if it even really can be taught. But if you're a marketer, and you're looking to improve your sense of what's great, and what's gonna miss the mark, how can you go about refining your tastes?
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 28:41
I mean, I think I've been very lucky that I have a great creative director that I've worked with for four or five years now. And she's best designer I've ever worked with. She's got it, she's always had it. No matter what brands she works for. It's just there. I think number one is finding a great designer, I think number two is asking your customers. Because just because you might feel like you have great tastes doesn't mean it's going to, you know, appeal to the customers you're selling to. But most importantly and the third, the third kind of way I go about this is look at consumer brands. You know, b2b you can go look at cool b2b sites, but consumer brands under like successful consumer brands, understand UX and the the customer experience more than b2b does. So, when when we're going through like brand overhauls or website redesign, we're looking at a handful of software sites, but but the majority of our inspiration comes from consumer because the one thing consumer has to do is convert you on a website. b2b. It's good if you convert on a website, but the if you have a sales lead model The salesperson is going to be converting, you need to get them you know website's still your second most important products, but it's the consumer brands where I'm not talking to a human. And my ability to buy something on that site and use it appropriately and feel like I'm inspired and want to buy the product is very dependent on design. You
Jackson Carpenter 30:18
talk a lot about design. In fact, I think you talk more about design than most b2b CMOS I've talked to. And I'm interested to know if you have kind of any words of wisdom as it relates to design beyond what you've already shared for the you know, maybe more technocratic? You know, CFO turned CMO in the in the b2b space? Yeah,
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 30:48
I would say, design, great design can be a preference. But usability, good. Usability is never a preference. So you can, I don't care what the site looks like, I have a strong opinion on what things should look like. But the usability of the product, the website, the swag, is paramount. It could be the ugliest side, but usable, your customers like it, and you drive revenue through it great. And that's kind of, I think it's from when I say taste, I do have a very strong opinion on what looks good and what doesn't. But it's a combination of what looks good, what's differentiated, and what is usable. You know, if your site is beautiful, but it takes six to 10 seconds to load, you're getting screwed on the search side. And you're also getting screwed with people visiting your site, because it's not going to load on their phone. Or you're not, you design an awesome debt desktop site. And I can't believe I'm saying this out loud, because people still do this, but and then you have a crappy mobile, you didn't even think about mobile. That is just it blows me away. So that's how I would frame it. You got to think of like, all three of those aspects.
Jackson Carpenter 32:03
Now we touched a bit on AI. But aside from Ai, what do you think are the most important kind of underappreciated trends in marketing today?
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 32:11
Direct mail. I mean, we kind of talked about it already. I, you know, you can you can talk about dark social, and ABM, and near bound and demand conversion, and all these things that are out there that people are talking about. But I have yet to find something that converts better than when somebody gets something in the mail. And it's personalized. I mean, I'm sure there's somebody listening, they're like, Oh, he's just full of crap. But I have yet to experience something that's better than a tangible thing that surprises somebody.
Jackson Carpenter 32:52
I especially love it because you saw him move away from direct mail, in the days where we got stacks and stacks and stacks of junk mail, right, that just went straight in the garbage never got looked at never got opened, and everything shifted to email. And now email is is you know, almost unusable. Depending on on how familiar your audiences are with you. Right? Email becomes much more difficult. So I love I love that insight. That's fantastic.
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 33:19
But I think I think the difference. I don't care what the medium is, it matters what is being delivered, a great email will be read, a good email newsletter will grow and subscribers, I am still getting junk mail as direct mail, it just happens to be a t shirt. And a Yeti, not a postcard. So jump L is junk mail it whether it's an email or direct mail, it's it's the amount of time and energy you put into the thing like you can you can be mindless and go hire a provider to put your logo on the middle of a T shirt. And hopefully you get the size right. But you can't pay somebody to think about something that looks great and is comfortable and is personalized so that the individual yourself, you're sending it to
Jackson Carpenter 34:09
let's talk about this. What kind of direct mail are you doing?
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 34:12
I mean, Legos, for sure. We've done neon lights, we've done we have a whole store. I mean, it's the third store, I've launched a brand, I think Jellyfish.co/store and it has all the normal stuff in it. T shirts, hats, everything, but they're well designed, and they look good and it looks like a retail brand. Right and delight again. Again, surprise and delight. I mean I that's marketing. In a nutshell. You just got to generate revenue.
Jackson Carpenter 34:42
Well, how would you feel about doing some rapid fire questions? Sure. So he's go quick and see if he can answer in like a sentence or less. What is the most important trait a CMO needs to
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 34:53
have the ability to align with their peers?
Jackson Carpenter 34:55
What career advice do you have for aspiring CMOS?
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 34:59
Oh man of what career advice do I have for aspiring CMOS? Oh number first, everything else comes second.
Jackson Carpenter 35:05
If you could market any brand other than Jellyfish, which would it be?
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 35:10
Nike?
Jackson Carpenter 35:11
What is your favorite marketing book? Besides your own books? Oh
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 35:16
not pick my own books. There's a book called Alchemy by Rory Sutherland,
Jackson Carpenter 35:21
if you are going to point your listeners to one of your own books,
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 35:24
which would it be branding yourself? Because it's the only one still in print?
Jackson Carpenter 35:28
That's a good reason. Were outside of marketing. Do you look for inspiration? Oh,
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 35:33
man, where outside of marketing? Do I look for inspiration? Music
Jackson Carpenter 35:37
is your favorite band?
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 35:39
Oh, that's a good question. I have a lot. I'm more into. I don't know if you're gonna like pick one out of everything and probably be Coldplay. But I'm deep into EDM right now than I have been for the past like five years. But if I if I'm like, I need to listen to something it'd be called What
Jackson Carpenter 35:56
what's your favorite marketing campaign of all time?
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 35:59
I'd say just do it from Nike or the brand milk that where they had a bus would pull up and it fill in the billboard that was behind it. I can't remember the brand knows maybe that's a terrible example. But I anything Nike? I would
Jackson Carpenter 36:16
I'll do all day long can miss what's your favorite TV show?
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 36:20
Right now? Dark matter?
Jackson Carpenter 36:21
Good answer anything. We didn't discuss that we should have sci fi
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 36:25
books. I've highly recommend three body problem highly recommend dark matter. three
Jackson Carpenter 36:30
body problem is a spectacular recommendation. Let me like quadruple underline that for anyone listening. I love that you're able to get a little bit of science education in a great story with just tremendous metaphors. It's so good that have you seen the show?
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 36:46
Yeah, yeah, I think they packed too much into the first season. It but it was okay. Dark Matter has been perfect. Everything about it has been perfect. It's been bright to the book. But if you think about three body problem talk about for what they for what they had to work with. They've done a decent job on the show because that thing is just massive. I think you
Jackson Carpenter 37:13
and I would would would both be willing to you know, see four times as many episodes to get through the content. I don't know if I
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 37:21
would months of that show. And then let's see. I'm a huge Stephen King fan, but eyes of the Void shards of Earth. Adrian Trump kowski all of those children of time. All those are great sci fi I tend to read sci fi and Stephen King outside of the very, very rare that I'll do business books. Honestly,
Jackson Carpenter 37:42
I really love that your answer to anything we didn't discuss that we should have was like sci fi bugs. That's spectacular. I really love that. If people want to want to follow you catch up with you, where can they where can they connect?
Kyle Lacy - Jellyfish 37:56
LinkedIn is where I spend the most time so on LinkedIn
Jackson Carpenter 37:58
right on Kyle Lacy thank you so much for coming on TOP CMO thank you much for ship
38:08
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