Ben Kaplan 0:00
Welcome to Top CMO. I'm chatting with Julia Goldin, the chief product and marketing officer of Lego. And Julia Julia was the one time I'm chatting with Julia golden, the chief product and marketing officer of Lego. And Julia, one of the things that's interesting about how you define marketing is marketing is not just advertising. Marketing is not just getting people to buy stuff, though that's important. But marketing is now creating content that evokes desire. What do you mean by that to create content that devote that invokes desire as a marketer.
Julia Goldin 0:40
Thank you for having me here. And nice to chat with you, Ben. And I, what I see in the world today, and I think everybody sees that is the fact that we have so many different platforms available to us. So when you're thinking about channels through which we can connect with our consumers, they're much more immersive, and they have much more ability to be more personal, you know, more connected, and more, more audience kind of oriented and audience focused. And so marketing is not as simple as creating an advertising campaign, I believe that we have an opportunity to really understand our consumer really understand our audience, understand how they engage in our lives, and what's important to them and make sure that we connect with them through content that brings the product to life in a way that will be really meaningful. So if, for example, if I take a Lego set, as an example, and I talk about, you know, I don't know, LEGO Star Wars, let's take that one establishes an amazing IP. And we know kids that really love Star Wars are completely into all kinds of different experiences related to Star Wars, rather than just advertising the sets, you know, what's really interesting is to be able to engage kids in short form content to be able to showcase something to them that they haven't seen before, to be able to open up a window into designers that design style was set to be able to engage them in a Star Wars game. So thinking about holistically about how to create immersive experiences that will engage the audience, you know, and tap into their passions. That's the huge opportunity that they have in marketing, which we did not have, you know, 20 years ago.
Ben Kaplan 2:20
Well, and it's interesting, because in marketing for Lego, how do you think about your audiences, you have kids themselves, but parents are there too, and parents are presumably making the purchase for the kids. It's an interesting area, I have some background in marketing and children's books, where children's books has to appeal to the kids. But it also has to appeal to the parents as well, it might find something clever or funny that in the book that the child might not get. So how do you think about audiences? How do you evoke desire, when you have maybe kids and parents at the same time that are stakeholders in the Lego experience?
Julia Goldin 2:59
I think the first thing is that you need to know who you're designing the product for. And so they are very crystal clear about designing the product for kids and then segmenting it further. And so the kids with particular passion points, a particular play needs development in terms of age, etc. So the product needs to tap into what kids are really going to want. Because at the end of the day, they drag the wish list. So they need to be passionate about. But of course, we also are very, you know, clear in understanding shoppers and parents, what occasions they're looking for, how they think about value. You know, how we can help them to discover and navigate, you know, it's to find the right product for their child if their child hasn't asked for somebody for something specific. So parents are very important element of the whole kind of shopper journey journey, less than that one. But parents are also very important element of the whole journey, right? We believe that play is incredibly important for children, it's essential for their childhood and essential for their development. And parents are the window to open play for kids. So a big portion of what we do also, without our brand communication, a brand campaign is to communicate to parents about the importance of creativity in play, and the importance of play as unlocking creativity, creative problem solving, helping their kids to develop 21st century skills. So that's kind of the first thing is to get them really interested then it's about really helping them to navigate, you know, how do they find the right product for their child? How do they know what their child for example, will really appreciate and love. And then lastly, parents as mentors as also people that we want to engage in the whole experience because one of the unique things about the Lego brand, and the Lego bricks and Lego plays that we do have an enormous of ability to bring kids and parents together and parents can also play a role in helping their child to have the best possible experience. So parents have to Very important kids are kings and queens.
Ben Kaplan 5:03
Okay. Well said and and how do you think about them? The impact that a brand like Lego can have? I know you've talked about that. The fact that Lego should be big brand, like a big brand on the world said, it's not just a toy company in terms of its impact it makes toys. But even though you've even alluded to learning, creativity, development, but then even grander themes, how do you think about that? And how do you go about sort of increasing the size, the scope, the importance of Lego as a brand?
Julia Goldin 5:40
Yeah. So the, when we, when I think about the Lego brand, I think of a brand that has a very clear mission of developing inspiring the builders of tomorrow. So the first message and the key thing that we want to advocate for is learning through play and the importance of play, and basically sending a message to the world about first and foremost, if kids need play in their life, and they need great and immersive play in their life, and play can really help to build all of these essential what we call kind of essential 21st century skills. So we're very focused on activities that deliver that message. Take Lego masters as an example. It's a great content that actually engages people in seeing and understanding what creativity can actually deliver. Or if you take our brand campaign from, from this year, where we celebrated our 90th anniversary, you know, we really made that into a big moment of play, including creating a world play day, to make sure that we actually engage parents and children and adults in play, and reinforce the importance of place. So that's kind of the first really big message. Secondly, we are a brand that is the number one brand for kids, and they have a massive opportunity. And I think a responsibility to make sure that we also address some of the, you know, big issues that I think for our society are going to be absolutely critical. So examples, you know, children today are growing up in a world where they're much more engaged from an earlier age about what that world needs to be. And the big things that we engage in would be things like supporting underprivileged communities. So for example, black community 25% of everything we do goes to the Lego foundation, it's our opportunity to support you know, under underprivileged communities and kids that are in crisis situations, to ensure that we can bring play to their lives. Secondly, diversity and inclusivity very important because children are growing up in a world where we don't want children to feel marginalised by society, we want everyone to feel that they can, you know, they can, they can realise the best of their potential, but there's still a lot of opportunity to do that. And to give kids an opportunity to see that everybody can find themselves, you know, having an opportunity to having a full opportunity to realise their potential. So we do that, for example, in ourselves, you know, we create, we have blind kids, we have our people, we have people in wheelchairs, but but active and being able to actually live an active life, via show genders in very non traditional roles to reinforce the importance of gender diversity, but also, you know, importance of giving people an opportunity, given women an opportunity to do the things that they really want to do in their lives. So a lot of different things to really reinforce inclusivity in a very direct way, where they can see it in ourselves. And they can also see it in our marketing in our in our content. Supporting LGBTQIA plus community is another very important element. And then, of course, also driving all kinds of, you know, very important efforts, in terms of sustainability. So these are the things that we can do as a company, but they're also things that we can do as a brand and things that we can do as products. And that's where, you know, we can immerse children in the world that have play, but in a way that also educates them about the right kind of things that values, things that are important for their lives and for their future.
Ben Kaplan 9:20
Well, and and how do you think about in your title and your job, you oversee, not just marketing, but product as well, and in particular, product innovation? So, which isn't the case for necessarily a lot of CMOS? So how do you think about how does that impact your role as a marketer, the fact that what you're just talking about, you might you know, have a role in making a product or product innovation, more inclusive show, maybe a non traditional role for something to kind of show what's possible. How does that impact the fact But you were both of those hats?
Julia Goldin 10:03
Well, I think I'm very privileged. And what happens what what my role allows me to do is to bring my team together so that we're not thinking linearly, you know, between creating a product and then figuring out how to market the product, the product, the marketing come together from the very beginning. So the process is very different, I think, from the sort of usual kind of linear process. And the engagement is very strong. So the, at the end of the day, I've always, I always believed in marketing, being a real cross section between art and science, you need to really understand your consumer, you need really need to understand the data and the insights, but then there's also creativity that's involved in actually creating something that will surprise and delight them. And that's kind of the that intersection is still really important when you're starting to develop products. But the power is that the marketers or have a seat at the table from the very beginning. So it's not that I have designers that paid products, and then marketers to take it on and go figure out how to market to market them. It's marketing and design that says together to figure out what are going to be the themes, what are going to be the really interesting trends, what are the things that we want to tap into, which who's our audience, you know, the which passion points we want to bring to life, then the products as the products get designed, you can start thinking holistically about content about, you know, the different marketing levers that you might want to use, and the experience that you want to create. So marketing becomes much more around experience and content and not just straightforward advertising. So that's a big opportunity that I have, because I have a team that works together.
Ben Kaplan 11:48
And do you have do people kind of stay in their own lane in these kind of sessions, where let's say, it's early on development of product, and marketers sort of say, you know, oh, and I, here's an insight about, you know, some social media listening, we've done and other things, and they come talk about that and the product people talk about, about their role? Or does it? Does it all blend together? Am I a marketer might have an idea for a product? And do you encourage that? Or do you encourage people to kind of stay in their domain of expertise.
Julia Goldin 12:19
I see marketers are as much more business owners, so I feel that they have full ability and opportunity. And actually, it's part of their job to actually have a perspective on how to develop their, their product lines, and how to tap in the audience that they're looking after. But design has also played a big role, because they can bring a more of a creative slant and look at things differently. And sometimes it's, you know, it's it says that the process is very symbiotic people don't need to stay in their lanes, they need to work together as a team. That's the power. That is the power is in the team and the fact that people can bring different perspectives.
Ben Kaplan 12:59
And what is an example of I think, under lying, we, as you describe it, both the product side and the marketing side, you underpinning both sides, really it sounds like is consumer insights, understanding the consumer, understanding their motivations, understanding their wants, and needs and desires and benefits was their true motivation for a product? So given given that, how do you bring that out? How do you sort of you're a creative company by nature of the product you sell, but which, which kind of sounds a little bit right brain? But yeah, it's left brain based on data and insight, and how do you merge that into the process?
Julia Goldin 13:42
It's a very good question. But you know, the, I think that's one of the things that I also feel is very unique is the fact that it is a combination of left and right brain. And I think the level experience itself, if I can just deviate for a second is allowed left and right brain combination, right? Because on the one hand, you know, it's a creative process. But on the other hand, it's also very logical, and you have to follow steps and think about, you know, what might have gone wrong, or how to fix things. The way that we do it is very simple. I mean, you you need to understand your consumer, you know, I don't think that's a left brain necessarily, or a right brain. inclination, it's just more that we are really valued data and under so for example, so for example, kids, if I take kids, we don't design products by starting with, Okay, boys and girls, we think about passion points and built in employee needs and the way kids build and what their different levels of experience are and what that how that might influence their playing engagement. And so it's all starts with very rich understanding of the data that we have available, but also might do some other research to specifically dive into a particular passion point that we want to understand. Then the process starts so part of it is logical, of course you see The data you understand who you're gonna go after, but part of the creation is also being able to pay things that don't exist today. And that's the creative process. So that's how the two things come together. And it's never that one part of the brain, which is off, because even as you're developing products you be we do a lot of testing of our products to understand how kids or how the audience they're designed for relate to them early on how they relate to the play experience, but also how they view the product and how interested they are. And so part of it is qualitative part of it, this quantitative and they need to be able to embrace and understand both. That's how the, that's how the process kind of iterates. But we also do a lot of things to promote creativity and just give people an opportunity to continuously stay inspired, both externally but also internally. So for, for designers, for example, we often take the they sometimes do creative booths, at least a couple of times a year where they can just take one week and design whatever they want, on a particular brief. And that's kind of a very quick way without any insight, just get the stimulation of your own creativity.
Ben Kaplan 16:10
And, and how does it we've we've focused on, you know, motivations, needs, wants desires of individual kids, parents, families, and kind of a micro level, how do macro and cultural and other events have a factor here in terms of I mean, you've had for a number of years now the rebuild, rebuild the world campaign from Lego, and talk about that, but obviously, that maybe takes a different meaning. After something like the pandemic we've been going through or, or other kind of, like socio economic cultural events worldwide, how does that kind of influence of products and marketing aside from the individual needs of a kid and in the family as well,
Julia Goldin 16:56
very important, you know, it's really important to also be topical, and to be relevant. You know, we also do a lot of work to just want the brand to make sure that our brand taps into the moments of culture that are, you know, unique and relevant and important, we also collaborate with other creators. So at a global scale, you're constantly looking for one, which are going to be the seminal cultural moments that you want to be part of. Then secondly, what are the, you know, who are the, you know, creators or, you know, partners that you would want to work with, from the grand scheme of things, you know, who are also doing a lot of work and connecting in a very culturally relevant way. So that, you know, shapes a lot of what we do in terms of our brands, and in terms of our brand in terms of the Lego brand, but also in terms of the choices that we make, even for internal IPs for for IP partners, you know, so for example, you know, what are going to be the hot movies, what are going to be the hot properties? Who are the people influences that they might want to work with? Who are the brands that we may want to collaborate with? And these are the kinds of things that are shaped by our culture and society around us. And part of it is, of course, also tapping into moments that are not so nice for society, but moments that require brands to act.
Ben Kaplan 18:22
Well, and and how does that mean, in looking at your background, you know, one brand that does a really good job of being culturally relevant that you had a career, I think, a 13 year career at Coca Cola, which included all different levels of company, but also being the deputy CMO. For Japan. That's a brand that is culturally relevant yet if you just looked at their product, it's a drink. It's something refreshing tastes good. It doesn't necessarily need to be but but for Coca Cola, what do you take from that experience marketing Coca Cola that you that you deploy now at Lego on how you are culturally relevant, that goes beyond maybe what your actual, like product delivery or benefit is, by the size of your brand, and its its impact on the world stage?
Julia Goldin 19:15
Yeah, it was a great lesson for me, it was really like, for me brand Academy. You know, because Coke is like, it's sad. It's just the drink. But coke felt, you know, and I've read the archives, actually, of the legendary CEO of coke, Robert Woodruff. But, you know, Coke felt the responsibility, you know, to be also part of the fabric that unites the world, part of the fabric that stood for peace for togetherness, and it established itself that way and did a lot of iconic things through the years to say to make these statements like you know, supporting Olympics. Some World Cup like putting a massive first sort of sign in the middle of Piccadilly Circus in London, because it was the heart of Europe after after the war, and they wanted to be there. Like doing, of course, I want to buy the world, the Coke, you know, in the middle of early 1970s, with a lot of, you know, very, you know, revolutionary spirit and problems the US was experiencing these kinds of iconic statements were very important. And what I learned when I worked at Coke is that you can't rely on those statements, right? You, each generation of marketers has a responsibility to leave the legacy of the brand very strong. So I had to work on figuring out how to be relevant in the world that I was in, at the time that I was, you know, have the opportunity to take care of the brand. And it does require really understanding consumers really understanding what was important to them, and really tapping into the moments and experiences that were, you know, the highlights for their life and really brought to life, this idea of togetherness, like football, that, you know, brings everyone together like music that brings people together and allows them to express themselves. So so that was sort of my experience with coke. And if I and I learned that kind of, you know, continuous focus on building the brand that is much bigger than just the product. And I think of Lego in a very similar way, in the sense that of course, we have amazing area of products, some of them are actually really, really big. But as a brand, we surpass any individual product and really stand for the importance of creativity, the importance of play, the importance of creative expression, creative problem solving, and supporting inclusivity in terms of, you know, just giving everybody the ability to be confident creator. And I think that legacy is much bigger than any individual product.
Ben Kaplan 21:57
And and how do you do it in a genuine and authentic way that is received? Well, and let me just give a contrast to a campaign not too long ago that that a rival of Coke, Pepsi, got a lot of criticism for the kind of a campaign with Kendall Jenner. And it was meant to be on social issues, but they got a lot of criticism for like kind of trivialising Black Lives Matter and other kinds of social issues. Most likely, their intent was not to trivialise the matter. They wanted to do something that did all the things you say, like, say something important and stand for things and have a bigger brand into everything you just said. But it was very, very poorly received in that instance. So how do you do it in a way that is genuine and authentic, but it also doesn't seem self serving, because you're a big brand. And of course, you want a brand that stands for goodness, and you want to sell a bunch of stuff to us? How do you make How do you bridge that divide?
Julia Goldin 22:53
Well, firstly, we have a very important principle, which is that we, when we, if we choose and decide to tap into social issue, we do it with action, not with words, because you know, doing black lives, matters. An example, you know, a lot of brands said something, but says something doesn't really help society as much as doing something. So we actually acted, you know, the donated, pledge the donation of money to throw out the foundation to support black lives matter and support, particularly kids and underprivileged black communities. So, so that's, that was a very important element of it. And I would say, you know, that's kind of a very important, you know, lands that we have on specific social issues. We want to do things that will actually really help society, not just talk about the fact that these issues are important. So if you're going to talk, if we're going to talk about diversity, we're actually doing things in ourselves in our marketing, to actually actively engage diverse communities and help people to feel that they are included, for example, you know, we can talk about diversity and inclusivity. But we have launched Braille bricks for blind kids, for them to help them to Braille but also audio building instructions to help blind kids to be able to build in a very present kids in an adults in different situations in ourselves, whether they are have a learning disability or whether they have, you know, another type of disability, it's very important to help them help to show that people can have, you know, very active lives and that we need to show that to kids because kids recognise themselves. They see themselves in these sets and they feel much more confident and support it. And so, action is very important. If you want to stand for big social issues that will be kind of the way that At least think about that. So that's one thing. And secondly, of course, when you tap into cultural trends, I think you need to be very choice for about the kinds of collaborations that you create. And the way that you tap into into the different, you know, into different cultural trends. Because doing too much is also an upgrade for brands, you have to be really truthful, and do things that will stand out, make a statement, get people to be excited, but it's better to do a few things that are really big, rather than do a lot of things
Ben Kaplan 25:32
everywhere. Well, and of course, it's one thing to do it within within a country, or, or an area or a region, right, like Black Lives Matter was was was based in the US. And there's a set of sort of cultural norms and assumptions that you can count on. But logo, Lego is a global company, Coca Cola when you work there, and of course, a global company. And your background has been interesting, because you're based in London, in the UK, you spend time in Denmark, originally from St. Petersburg, Russia, as part of your sort of geographic regions across your career, it looks like you're you are in charge of Northwest Europe, but also, you know, we're state we're in charge of Japan at different points. How do you think of that overall? What crosses cultural divides? What translates? Do you do you geographically localised campaigns and ways? How do you make sure that it's accepted in the attended way when you're a global brand.
Julia Goldin 26:28
And there's something very powerful about having a strong global brand with strong global statements. So when we design global brand campaigns, we do make sure that they can transcend borders, and be relevant everywhere. But then the power of, of big brands and the power, and the power of the opportunities that we have today as marketers, is to be able to connect on a very personal level, and to be relevant to our consumers around the world, and to be able to take it down to the local culture and tap into the local culture and, and in a relevant way. So if I just take an example of China, we have, you know, all of our brand global campaigns resonate in China, and they run in China very successfully. And we have a global portfolio that also performed extremely well there. But for China, we also design specific programmes that happen to Chinese customs, like for example, you know, we have a theme called Monkey care that particularly taps into the history, or we are a very traditional and very well known journey of the Monkey King. We create great products for Chinese New Year to celebrate it, and of course, create campaigns to do that. And we will do that in in different cultures to celebrate the cultures that, you know, that are there to be relevant. So I think there's certain things that can that need to happen at global level, but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't be localised, doing locally relevant things as well, I think some things are very important to also, you know, make an ad in a relevant way to the local culture and to be able to adapt, you know, to be relevant to consumers. And was an example
Ben Kaplan 28:11
of an insight about the consumer, maybe it's localised, maybe it's more global, that lead directly to an immersive campaign, I'll give you one from from our background, where we're a global marketing agency, we do a lot of work for Budweiser. And so we had an insight that we did some market research that people drinking a Budweiser or more chatted up at bars, that it's that they're seen as more friendly than if they're drinking a Heineken or a competitor like that, that people are going to approach and talk to them. So we actually did a campaign around what your drink says about you. And and based on if you're in the bar, what are you communicating? What are people assuming about you, because we want to bring out the message that, oh, people think you're more genuine and authentic and friendly, a good person to have a beer with if you're drinking a Budweiser rather than a competitor? That's one example. Is there an example of of like, a consumer insight or a cultural insight that led itself to a campaign more directly that you wouldn't have done otherwise? If you didn't have the insight?
Julia Goldin 29:11
I think, a good example, that maybe it's just very topic of what we acted very fast during call it you know, because when we experienced now, in hindsight, they can understand what it was but then imagine that we're not everybody's in the lockdown and what happens. And so we had a big insight about the fact that it was a time where families were, the positive thing was the families were able to come together. And so we did a campaign very quickly. It was all social media campaign, but it was called let's build together. And it was tapping into that insight that, you know, as a parent, that's very difficult. And when your children are educated at home, it's really tough and you want to get joyful moments, to just kind of be able to create great moments for families. especially in that time that it was very challenging and insecure for a lot of people. So we did, let's build together a campaign that was not based on selling any product, but activating the building of products that you already have, and giving people ideas and creating movement around it. So that was one example of a campaign that was really built based on an insight and create a lot of followship, you know, and engagement, because people started to share content that what they were doing, they were inspiring other people, but I really do believe that we brought joyful moments to many people who were under a lot of stress, you know, during that time, and then another container will use is our work with adults. So we did work to understand adults have always been part of the Lego portfolio in other some of the core adult fans of Lego that have always been very engaged with us, but it was a very small proportion. And we kind of had a hunch that there's a lot more adults that would love to build with LEGO bricks, and that could be a really positive way to engage adults. And as well as them, you know, adults are massive influences for kids, of course, also engage kids. And we did a lot of research to understand, you know, what adults were into. And it was very clear that, you know, many, many adults, I would say, majority always want to find moments of meditation, moments of kind of internal, you know, moments for themselves, where they can do something that can also make them feel really good, bring them moments of self esteem and self reflection. And based on that the, you know, investigated, what are the different passions that they would want to engage in and build a portfolio of products that really taps into different passions that adults have. But the campaign that we created around that is called joyful focus campaign, it was all about this short moments of joyful focus to just, you know, take time out and just build the set that you really always wanted to build. And that was really successful, because I think it's tapped into the zeitgeist of, you know, the world today that is so fast, so unpredictable, that we all need more and more to take a little bit of time for ourselves to kind of, you know, to create those moments of setting ourselves up, and focusing on something that will take our mind away from all the things that are happening around us. So that was very topical, very successful, and very good at engaging more and more adults in our portfolio.
Ben Kaplan 32:32
And how do you we talked about the kind of Coca Cola background you called it like kind of, I think, a great university or Academy and sort of brand marketing. You also had, you know, very significant time at Revlon obviously cosmetics beauty company known for its lipstick in particular. And you credit that as as when that that notion that you talked about between marketing and product don't have to be separate lanes and silos, they kind of come together? What did you learn from that experience? Which was a product product innovation related to marketing? And how does that influence you now as well?
Julia Goldin 33:11
If, if, if Coke was the brand, Academy, then Revlon was about the innovation and product innovation because product innovation doesn't just happen that you bring people together. It's a process that needs it that has Bethpage gates, if you want to have innovation, you know takes time. And you need to really plan a pipeline of innovation. So part of it is really just understanding how the innovation process works. And secondly, to be able to also understand how to create innovation with more long term and more longer term horizon that will have potentially, you know, more challenging functionalities, or more challenging aspects of the product that you need to take more time to pay. So that's one big part of innovation. And then another big part of innovation is around this ability to kind of iterate and continuously raise the bar in terms of how you're going to create the right products for your consumer to really evoke desire. Because you know, cosmetics, or a lot of people asked me, Lego and Revlon cosmetics of toys are so super different. They're not that different. I think one big similarity is the fact that both businesses are very reliant on novelties. And the reason that is the case is because they don't serve needs, Mr. Desires. You know, you can never if you ask the woman, does she have enough pair of shoes, or does she have enough lipsticks? Or you know, it's no one's ever gonna say, yes, I've got, you know, you always want to look for something new because that's what gives us a sense of self esteem puts a smile on our face, that novelty factor, that novelty factor, you know, doesn't happen by accident. You need to pay that desire and it's the same with toys. You know, kids have a lot of toys, but every year they want something new and just be because they bought last year doesn't mean they'll buy again this year. So the bar is high. And so understanding how the product innovation process works, make sure making sure they have the right conversations at every stage gate. So you can create based on real insights, that you have a good funnel that you can go through the condenser and into a pipeline that that you that you can refine to at the finish line. These are the kinds of you know, these are the kinds of things that I've learned when I did my job at Revlon,
Ben Kaplan 35:31
what do you recommend for a CMO that doesn't really have that that purview of product or product innovation are not normally do you recommend that that CEO cmo tries to educate himself or herself or sort of be available part of that be a resource or try to try to bring that knowledge and even if it's an informal way into their sort of purview or scope?
Julia Goldin 35:55
Absolutely. I think it's really important. And as I said, I think product and marketing separating them creates a very linear and very outdated approach. In my view, I think that this co creation is super important. So I would definitely encourage marketers to be engaged in a product development process, to understand what's been developed and how and, and also to understand the limitations, as well as the opportunities that the product development process of a particular company has. I see a lot of benefits in that. And as I said, in my organisation, there's definitely alignment, transparency and teamwork connected to developing products, which I think results in a significantly better experiences for consumers and also more effective.
Ben Kaplan 36:48
Well, and finally, it's kind of to wrap up. I mean, you've talked a lot about not just marketing for sort of functional benefits, but marketing for desires, and having a more way to kind of inspire those desires. How important is doing that in a moment of time, at a moment of time? What I mean by that is, I see Lego on world play day, that's a moment that's a moment where it comes together. And there's kind of a focus on it. How important is it to kind of focus in time for this relevant moment where you can get your message across? Or and how do you think about time as dimension and all of this
Julia Goldin 37:24
is, I think time has two aspects to it, I think one, there's a moment in time where people are really engaged. So if they're really engaged in, for example, you know, International Women's Day, more people are attuned to the, to the aspect of women, girls, international Girls Day is very similar. That's a very good way, the time to engage people in the conversation around the gender pay gap that exists between girls and boys, because they don't have the same opportunities that boys do, and actually serve up opportunities to engage more parents in, you know, getting more play opportunities for their girls. That's one moment in time. However, there's also moments across time that happen in the micro level. And I think as a big brand, you need to be able to also be relevant in a moment. So when things happen, we need to be able to respond, especially when you have a massive level of engagement with your consumers, we have had very high level of engagement in our own channels, in our own channels. Our local YouTube is the biggest brand the channel as an example. So you can't just be pushing your messages out, you have to be able to respond to what is trending to respond to how consumers, what is interesting and important for your consumers and ultimately to respond to what they're in the moment they're in. And that's why we did the let's build together campaign to uncover it because we could see what was trending.
Ben Kaplan 38:53
Sure what so and oh, sorry, go ahead.
Julia Goldin 38:57
No, so I would say be very selective about the big moments to make sure that you can be really relevant and action something in those moments, but then also ensure that you can relate to the small moments that happen every day.
Ben Kaplan 39:11
And, and as a final question, what is your superpower? With all of this? You wear many hats, you've worked at different brands, you've managed large organisations, what is your superpower? And where do you see your career headed after this? What would you still like to do and accomplish?
Julia Goldin 39:32
I think we still have such an amazing opportunity to search more and more children and adults in a very relevant and engaging way. And I think I have so much passion when I see the sparkle in people's eyes and when they tell me how much enjoyment they got out of the last Lego set that they built. That I really want to continue. You know, because I can see an opportunity to do more and we still have a big, big role to play in helping so many children around the world. I'm so so that's how I see the future. And in terms of my superpower, you know, it's very difficult to, to nail one particular point. But maybe I would say versatility has been very important because in two levels one is I am very balanced, right, the left brain and I can move between the art and science. And I think that has always really helped me in kind of the more sort of like how to develop the portfolio how to think strategically and commercially but at the same time, leave room for a lot of creativity. But I think the second thing, in terms of versatility is appreciation of diversity, being able to work in different cultures appreciate different cultures and what different people can bring and the power of a team that is diverse, and ability to to deal with difficult situations and take take risks I've done with all my life.
Ben Kaplan 40:54
Well said, Thank you so much for joining us on top CMO, Julia Goldin, chief product and marketing officer at Lego. And I think in many ways you have a job that that is a dream job for a lot of marketers and CMOS out there because you get to play left brain and right brain and you get to like market creativity and you get to inspire kids and so congratulations on on continued success on everything that you do.
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