TOP CMO: Evelyn Krasnow, Fernish - 'The Art & The Heart of Marketing'

Evelyn Krasnow  0:00  

And the same thing can happen with a campaign, you think he's just sort of going, it feels like oh my gosh, we've unlocked the key to the universe. And then all of a sudden, no one's clicking on your ad anymore, something goes awry or your budget changes, or there's some issue with the product, and you have to kind of shift gear. So sometimes progress can be a step back, or it can be a pause, but I think it's still progress.

Ben Kaplan  0:18  

This is the podcast where we go around the globe to interview marketing leaders from the world's biggest brands, fastest growing companies, and most disruptive startups. Three ideas packaged a certain way want to spread, they want to be told to someone else simple, surprising, and significantly creative. Unlocking viral creativity is to make it rapidly scalable. This is top cmo with me and Kaplan. Today I am speaking with Evelyn Krasno. CMO of furnish a premium furniture and decor rental startup that markets a little differently than just another premium furniture and decor rental startup. Evelyn previously served as a marketing leader at bird where she learned the power of hyperlocal community marketing as simple human, where she found disruptive ways to change the way people think about everyday items like trash cans. And at Belkin where she discovered that just because a cable or surge protector isn't glamorous, doesn't mean it can't be beautiful. Evelyn takes a story based approach to marketing, thinking about the stories of people who are going through life transitions, say a breakup, or working in a new city, and how she can align the furnish brand with their needs, wants and desires.

Evelyn Krause now CMO of furnish Welcome to Top CMO, what I like about especially about how you think about marketing furnish, is this notion of you are relevant to your target audience at these moments of transition, that you're a direct to consumer premium Furniture Rental service that's has a lot more flexibility, a lot more available inventory, trying to solve traditional problems and Furniture Rental. But because you are relevant when people have transitions, you specifically tried to market around those use cases in those transitions. So we'd love to hear more about how you think about that.

Evelyn Krasnow  2:13  

No, thank you so much for having me. And thanks for explaining so much of our business, I think one of the things about moving is it's super stressful. You're packing up boxes, there's memories, you're lugging big, heavy things. And the concept of having to move without even lifting a finger can be exhausting. So for furnish, what we're trying to do is find people at this point where they're already maybe a bit stressed, they might be very excited. But getting them to think differently about how they're going to go through this process. And that's, you know, that's kind of a difficult thing to do. Because furniture is a pretty considered purchase. And moving is something which is often not very spontaneous, although that's changed a bit over the past couple of years. So finding people at the right time, telling a story that's compelling, and then really driving home. A very different way to think about outfitting your home. People are used to buying and putting things in a truck and then moving it from place to place. And we're really saying, forget about all of that. Go online, find the things that you might like for your home, a chair, a dresser, whatever it is a bed, and then we'll deliver it for you, we'll assemble it for you. And you don't need to lift a finger. So it's a really great service. But it's not a part of the way most people think about their move.

Ben Kaplan  3:37  

Here, here's three use cases that I know you think about in your marketing. So one is you just broke up with someone well, that's not fun. Now you got to deal with all the logistical challenges that come through that particular if you're if you were living together to your newly engaged so first use case you're kind of pulling things apart. things together and the some kind of order and, and, you know, there's like the last little bit is like the clean person the dirty person. organized person, the unorganized the I think the classic scene and when When Harry Met Sally, remember that movie with like the wagon wheel coffee table? She doesn't. She's like if we ever if we if we ever split up? I never want that wacky coffee table. You can have it? Yeah, so there's that a third is that you just get a new job. It's an exciting time you're traveling, you're going to a new city, you're in a new place. It's a new opportunity. You're hopeful. Maybe you don't want to focus on that. So how do you think about that? How does that practically affect your messaging? If people come to your website or a landing page or see some type of material or if they're engaged in a campaign? How do you sort of message these moments?

Evelyn Krasnow  4:39  

Yeah, that's that's a really good question. And I think that is such a quintessential scene of like, not in my house. I do not want that. But I you know, I think one of the things that we found, we partner a lot with influencers and for us with influencers, we work really hard to find people who are going through that we've had people who are just mid breakup, where it's like I need, you know, I have a month to find a new place. And I don't want to see anything of his ever again, which I can completely appreciate and identify with. And I think there is to that point, there is a lot of kind of stress and literal and physical baggage with it. And there's also a lot of expense. So I think, you know, for us, we're starting with payments as little as you know, just $140 a month, so it's not that much. So you can have these more bite sized moments. And for us, we really, if we're just talking about the furniture, you're not really getting it. So for us with these influencer engagements, we actually need to show the truck coming the the we have our own warehouse and delivery teams, and we show the people coming in in the furnish shirts, setting things up assembling them for you. So that like the stress and the heaviness of what you're going through, at least won't be something that you have to do with moving all of your things.

Ben Kaplan  6:00  

It's like some of the value proposition actually isn't just the furniture, it's done, you're sitting on your couch, even if you've got a cold beverage in your hand, it's done. That's part of it. But it's actually the journey in getting there you need to show that is I think you're saying heightened by these moments where you can make a huge difference, because it's a moment of sort of great change for someone that you can come in and leverage

Evelyn Krasnow  6:24  

Exactly. And I think that's a service that most people see as separate, whether it is Hey, my friend with a truck, and I'll get you a six pack of beer, if you can help me move XYZ, I definitely did that back in the day. Or you're imagining ordering something from a store and these individual items that are then coming to you at different times and scheduling all of these different deliveries, this is really this one stop service where you're getting everything you need, and you're getting it all delivered and assembled for you on a day that you're really picking that works for you. But that service piece and really telling that story. It only resonates if you're actually going through it. I mean, if we take the maybe a better example, you just got a new job, you know, or you're just, you know, partnering up with someone for the first time, then there's I think all of that excitement happening in this kind of newness to this place in this location. And still, I think there's a lot of uncertainty. And knowing that you can pick what you want pick the day, there's just a lot more control over something which may actually end up being uncontrollable, if it's let's say, a gig that you're getting for six months, cool, get everything from us. And after six months, you can decide you want to buy some of the items or will pick them up and you never have to see him again. We'll refurbish it and bring it on to the next person who wants them.

Ben Kaplan  7:44  

So how does that work? In terms of the mechanics of influencer marketing? Do you do it in house? Do you have an outside agency that you use? Do you just gotta vet a ton of influencers? And you know, just ask the question like, do you think your boyfriend or girlfriend is an idiot? If so, we have a campaign for you. You know, what do you what how do you find those people?

Evelyn Krasnow  8:06  

You know, it's really funny. Sometimes people will proactively say it. I mean, what's nice is we have a lot of people who are kind of very happily newly coupled. But we also have people who are in the throes of a breakup. And I think it does feel really nice to be able to come to their rescue, we just did a really nice engagement with a rather large influencer Justin Baldoni and and he had an uncle who was moving for health reasons and was moving into a home and just wasn't going to be in a position physically or mentally. To furnish the home the family wasn't. So that was a case where you could sort of surprise someone and say, Hey, you're moving in, you don't have to live with lift a finger, everything is done for you. And I think when you have this kind of authentic story of helping people out in, in a real time of need, it resonates much more meaningfully, we do have people who reach out to us because candidly, they're influencers and they want new things, which is an amazing part of being an influencer. And you can get a lot of it and look great having all of those things. And it's definitely an aspiration for everyone. But if they don't have a real story to tell, then the use case just isn't there. Like you can definitely like just get a single a single item or a room. And there are moments where we'll do something like a refresh. But most of the cases if someone's moving to a new city, they have some kind of a change of life, or relationship status. That makes us a very, very compelling and helpful addition to that experience

Ben Kaplan  9:36  

where it almost sounds like the TV show Extreme Home Makeover. This is like furniture addition, right? Where it's not so much at the house. It's like all the inputs to get to that that makes the house the payoff. And if you want to have the payoff of this, you have to sort of see the journey to get there because that's that encapsulates some of the value and it makes it sort of special. Yeah, it's the backstory. Do you notice when you You tell these stories you give more of the context for it? Do you notice a difference in sales leads conversion, like hard business metrics? Do you do you just you see it perform differently?

Evelyn Krasnow  10:11  

I mean, of course, traffic, of course, the, the more meaningful the story, the higher the engagement. Fortunately, there a lot of people when there's no, we just did one last week where people were like, kind of newly living together, and the boyfriend made like a special appearance. And that was really nice. So I think people also want to share in the joy of you finding someone and I think, when you see engagement, we do sometimes use promo codes. And we can track some sales that way, certainly traffic, but I think it's the comments like for me, when people are actually taking that extra effort. It's amazing to have 10 13,000 likes something like that on a piece of content. But when you start seeing comments, you know, 100 comments or something like that, especially for a startup brand, like furnish, there's a connection there that people can relate to, and that I find very reassuring that okay, we're telling the right story here people are getting this.

Ben Kaplan  11:06  

So what makes for a good influencer marketing campaign? How do you connect emotion to what can be perceived as a commodity service like rental furniture, I'm reminded of the branding work and activation campaigns, we've done a top across the beer, wine and spirits industry, it's rare that we'll market the functional benefits behind the product. Instead, we create differentiation, or whitespace. By using the product until a powerful story that is simple, surprising, and significant. Let's talk about some other tactics, channels, storytelling methods, you utilize the takeover of the New York City Subway, which is at times I mean, sometimes it's just an ad, you sort of see ads, and sometimes there's certain brands that have really, like, embraced it. And it's almost like it became part of just their persona, right? I'm thinking about brands like like Casper for mattresses or anything like that, where you just see them everywhere. And it's almost like it's more than just an ad it's the takeover part is the is the significant part. So So talk about how you thought about that, and why you felt that was a good way to invest in a particularly sounds like important market for you.

Evelyn Krasnow  12:17  

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think so much about furniture and moving is like heavy and expensive. So one thing we wanted to do was really get convey the sense of lightness and freedom. So we had zillions of ideas. And then we kind of landed on literally probably the most simple idea, which is like, what is the furniture just floated? What if we just showed like, this weightless kind of couch and tables and, and really emphasize this concept of like, free your home. And then that would allow us to really talk about the value props of hassle free, risk free, you can return something at any time commitment, free, free delivery, you know, all of those props that come with the furniture offering. And I think another challenge we have as a as a DTC brand is, you know, at this point, we don't have a showroom, we don't have a physical location. So one of the nice things about a more architectural out of home campaign, like the New York City subway offers you this kind of permanence, especially at a time when you're moving from place to place, you know, you're getting this sense of okay, like, it feels more like an instant installation, it feels a bit more architectural than, let's say, a traditional billboard. And we really wanted to literally cement ourselves in the minds of commuters, that we were a good solution. And I think the subway also maps really perfectly to our demo, which tends to be, you know, 25 to 35 year olds, young professionals, people who are at a point in their career where they're moving around a bit. So that's really great. And I think also the subway, at least in my experience, taking it like I'm open to some I'm open to some distractions, you know, on notice what shoes people have on Arizona's eating, you know, I'll look at the signs up there. I mean, Casper does such clever things with copy and riddles and things like that. So you're kind of open to looking at at fund campaigns in a way that you might not be as receptive in other parts of of your commute or during your day

Ben Kaplan  14:22  

was the objective of this pure brand awareness? Were you act? Were you trying to get conversions from it? Also, were you trying to drive people somewhere? What was the what was the key metric? And was that metric successful?

Evelyn Krasnow  14:34  

So yeah, I mean, that's a really smart question. And we tried a lot of things. So for sure, brand awareness was the top goal. But of course, conversion is another part of it. We actually worked on because because we did everything in house we actually put a bunch of different QR codes on different pieces of creative so we could see like, are more people scanning the flying sofa or the or The coffee table. And it was kind of just to know, like, does this image work because I want to be able to use this again. And I'd ideally like, like to do the one that's more effective on. And we did have a have a DR code as well, we had a promo, which was helpful. I think, for me, if I see anyone scanning any ad anywhere, you know, outside of, you know, a Superbowl ad, which is absolutely brilliant. But, you know, I don't know how many times like I scan a, you know, a menu QR code, but I'm in marketing, and I don't know how often I scan something. So to me, anytime we were seeing, like, hundreds of scans on on a piece of creative made me really happy. And same with the redemption of the of the subway code, we used me we were kind of basic, we use the code subway, which seemed like easy enough to find, but I think we saw a, you know, a massive increase in traffic and a very, very, very nice uptick in sales, which was fantastic. Because we were just launching the New York market.

Ben Kaplan  16:00  

I know another different type of, of Local Activation that you've done, which we've also leveraged in different ways from our clients is leveraging a really big event, that's probably too big and too expensive for you to actually leverage it directly. We're talking about the Super Bowl, or maybe the NFL wants to you to call it the big game unless you've licensed it or something like that. But the you know, the big game, the Super Bowl, you did something in LA focused on the LA Rams that was that was giving discounts based on the score in the in the year that the Rams won the Super Bowl, talk about that and your thinking and sort of this notion of local, but also leveraging bigger events, bigger brands than you are now to to get some additional resonance and engagement.

Evelyn Krasnow  16:49  

I think every marketers dream is like what are you doing for the big game? Right? And, you know, as a startup, I can just tell you, like, we're never going to be able to afford, you know, a Superbowl commercial. So how do you kind of use that moment to maybe be a part of the conversation as a smart as a smaller brand. And I think we really did have an opportunity furnishes based in LA even though the Rams weren't technically the home team, they are the home team of LA. So we just thought, hey, what if we had some fun and we did a tiered discount by the the bigger the margin that the Rams won, the more discount you could have on your order, but you had to place your order in time for the Super Bowl. And I think as we talked about before, you usually are not buying furniture, or even thinking about renting anything, unless you have a real need, but you might have one coming up. And I think the idea of getting talked about and having people think about this clever and fun way to buy furniture, which again, talking about that heaviness from before is usually just like going to a store you're negotiating what's going to fit it's 1000s of dollars, like what is the whole thing, it's just fun. What is just this big, giant bat. And we had, we had an absolute blast with it, we got a ton of attention to it. We didn't have like massive conversions. But we did have a tremendous amount of brand awareness. And I think to be a part of the cultural conversation for a time like that and try to make yourself relevant and play with really the big guys. It's a challenge. And it's amazing when it works.

Ben Kaplan  18:33  

I'm reminded of a campaign a couple of different campaigns we did. One of them is for a client, we did the first ever real estate sale on the blockchain. And we're trying to figure out how do you make that more, you know, this is a few years ago and sort of interesting, engaging kind of a new concept. And so we managed to track down a house that was kind of special it dealt with the NFL because it was one of the PAC like Green Bay Packers party houses which is basically across from Lambeau this row of houses right and if you could like sell one of those, it was gonna be transacted on the blockchain and just brought this whole other, you know, element just people kind of were like, man, what's it like to live in one of those houses? That must be crazy? Yeah, you're across there. And then it was tied into this first ever transaction. You know, and I think those that come from I think CMOS come from from different tracks. The ones that come from some type of PR earned media track will tend to think more like this, right? When you say, I will tend to think of like, well, how do I join the cultural conversation? What can I do that's relevant? How do I pick you piggyback on someone else? I want to do a CMO who called it OPM, which is actually OPM, other people's money, how do you leverage other people's money to get more push from your own, particularly when you're small? So do you think about that as your team think about that sort of this almost PR or media muscle? How do we leverage that because we have to, we don't have the budget I have something much bigger.

Evelyn Krasnow  20:01  

I love that. I mean, I love OPM. I mean, I've heard it called trend jacking. You know, whatever. I think you're right that people who have that that PR background, you kind of grew up with those sort of like old school editorial calendars, like they're set times in the year that these are the cultural conversations that are going to be, you know, going to be happening, how can I get on, it's got to be a part of your DNA as a startup, because you don't you need other people's money, both the VCs to fund you. But you know, but to help propel you and I think example you're using, there's just something fun and cool about it. Like it puts you in this category of really coming up with unusual ways to make connections. And I think that can feel truly disruptive and help you stand out early on in the days when I was at at simplehuman. We were trying to simple human makes like really fancy trash cans and detracts. But in the world of kind of home goods,

Ben Kaplan  20:59  

I think I think I think I have a couple good. A couple of those. There you go. It's very, it's very, it's very nice. It's I have those and then I have the fancy diaper. Trash Can, right, which is I have that as well. So it's like trash can row there at the side of our, of our living room.

Evelyn Krasnow  21:18  

When we were first you know, when I was first starting out there, like people just like, literally thought we were trash and I could not get earned media like it was if you ever beautiful table top or serving ware or something like that, or, you know, a beautiful stove.

Ben Kaplan  21:36  

Yeah, I'm trying to pitch Architectural Digest, you're like, let's let's do this. It is they're not interested in our trash cans. So it's what did you do it hard

Evelyn Krasnow  21:43  

pass. So I had done a little advertising in in Food and Wine Magazine. And I knew at that time they had this big sort of event in Aspen where all of these sort of like fancy chefs would come to sample like beautiful wines from up and coming vineyards and chefs. And I was like wait, I had this idea that because that was the audience I wanted to get in front of. We're sort of these bougie foodies and these like literal tastemakers so I had this idea that we could serve, we could get space in this tent and just serve like really amazing, messy stuff. Like we had messy barbecue and messy tacos. And then I had like an automatic soap pump, but it dispensed sanitizer. And then I had these beautiful trash cans. So people were sort of around having these beautiful glasses of wine and then like this, like little tiny like the most perfect order of anyone has ever seen. But you know a day of doing this, you're kind of hungry, then you get to me, I've got these like huge messy tacos and barbecues. People were like lining up, but then they took one bite, right? And it's a disaster like it's complete mess, like, Oh, no problem. Would you like my, my automatic soap pump? And, and then here's a napkin with my brand name on it. And oh, don't worry, here's my beautiful trashcan. And people just thought they got such a kick out of it. It was super clever. Like we ended up really standing out kind of because we were trashy and different, you know, in our own way. And I think we you know to me like it was I don't know if it's a traditional stunt but to me it's experiential marketing is I wanted to get in front of those tastemakers, I wanted a memorable experience. And I wanted to kind of let people think about at that time you're spending, you know, 10s of 1000s of dollars to redo your kitchen. But at that time, people still had a $20 plastic trash bin. And we really were like, you know, it's all about upgrading your trash.

Ben Kaplan  23:40  

Anyone, anyone can have a beautifully remodeled design kitchen of the things but you're only as good as your weakest link. I can see that.

Evelyn Krasnow  23:52  

But I think again, it's about kind of getting, you know, it's the same thing as the same way. It's like getting people at the right time or you know, getting people when you can kind of get in on the attention of people I could never normally afford to reach and even if I could afford to reach them, they honestly wouldn't give me the time of day. So I had to find a way to like, you know, to to have this meaningful moment and it you know, it really worked beautifully. I think we had a TON TON TON TON of engagement I probably it's probably also the campaign and I think I gained a lot of weight. I ate a lot but it was definitely worth gaining the followers and pounds both worth everything.

Ben Kaplan  24:34  

I'm reminded of the axiom by renowned Japanese tidying expert Marie Kondo says Your feelings are the standard for decision making. Specifically, knowing what sparks joy to determine this when tidying re asked you to pick up each object one at a time and ask yourself quietly does this spark joy? So as marketers, how do we help our audience of potential customers pick up our product or services, so to speak, and discover the joy within? How can your product or service bring joy at exactly the moment when the potential customer needs it? According to Evelyn, that central question informs a wide variety of marketing channels at her disposal.

Evelyn Krasnow  25:19  

You know, I see myself a lot as like an underdog. So I think I really do champion these sort of, like really beautiful products that it may be at first glance, or unloved, or what is great about them is just simply that they work really well. And maybe they're unobtrusive. Something just fits. I mean, there's so many things that we encounter every day that just work, and they make our lives easier. And we don't always appreciate the design that goes into it, the thoughtfulness that goes into it, the engineering that goes into it, the logistics, the operation, the customer, service teams, all of those things that are that are helping to bring that product experience to life. For us, I think there's something really deeply rewarding as a marketer about being able to tell those stories meaningfully. And sometimes something as simple as like a as a really elegant diagram on a package is sometimes it's how you flesh out like an exploded view of a product on on a on a website, or through some some other sort of digital experience or video. But I think being able to tell those stories, I do think you sort of look look at objects in a new way. And I think there's something really, there's something really fun. And there's something really meaningful about that, like I like it when people get credit for good work,

Ben Kaplan  26:40  

in our vernacular, atop our agency, we would call like, at its essence, some of marketing, finding what's for us is three S's simple, surprising and significant. A lot of marketing is how do you simplify things down to the essence, and it has to be simple, because people got to take it with them, right? And they're not focused on you, if you're a super simple human, you and your marketing trashcans they don't think about trash cans, all that they're not thinking about these sort of things all the time. So it's got to be simple. It's got to be surprising. So just like you sort of influenced our experiential sort of stunt of, of, you know, here's this, like lovely trash can, we're giving you a funny use case, to use it right away that you you manufactured for them, we've got to be surprising. But then in the end, if you're simple, if you're surprising, you've also got to say something significant for your brand, because a simple surprise is not enough that you just like made some buzz people were like haha, and they move on. So you've got to do all of that. And if I would say like, I don't know, in my opinion, I don't know if you agree now like what is table stakes in this, it's almost like the simplicity. If you can't get it simple enough, no matter how good you do on the rest, it almost can't resonate, because it just can't transfer fast enough. Wives are too big busy, too much noise. I don't know if you agree or disagree.

Evelyn Krasnow  27:51  

I agree. 100%. And I love your concept of the three S's and I love that last one to have the significance piece. I think we talk a lot about authenticity. And that's one thing, but I think it's also like, does it matter? Like what does this mean? And I think the significant part of it is something that we don't really talk about enough. And I think when you can flesh that out, you really do have this trifecta where you can forge a real connection. And I think a real genuine appreciation and a way that people are willing, you know, they're willing to invest more in it,

Ben Kaplan  28:24  

what it sounds like you're doing what you're doing in the influencer campaign to is dialing up that significance, right? By telling the story telling the background, not just have it be a transactional influencer, that's like, look at me, I'm on a couch, now I'm gone. By doing that. You're able to to to actually drive up the significance. And now your product and even the notion of at furnish the idea of the commitment stress free, don't lift a finger, that significance what you might miss in the product. I don't know if I was shopping and be like, Okay, I need some temporary furniture, because I'm moving, that I would value all of that unless someone showed me that like, oh, wow, like, that'd be great. Think of all the stuff I could do with my family with what with meeting my new my new town, my new neighbors if I didn't have to worry about this. Oh, that's great. So it sounds like the significance part. You're driving now through storytelling and particularly like the those that context you're creating.

Evelyn Krasnow  29:22  

Absolutely. And I think as you're talking I want to like keep adding more S's like I think this storytelling piece and I think also the sustainability piece, right, which is a big part of the mission at furnish and I think is also a big part of how people are thinking today is like what is the impact and how is this a smarter choice? How is this a smarter choice for how I'm living for the earth? And I think that last piece that that kind of, I guess in the old PR world what you would call messaging pull through, right that sort of like feeling that like, oh, okay, like I can feel good about this. I made it I made a better decision. I feel smarter. You know, for for having done it this way, because I'm not throwing something out, I'm not having to like Hawk something on, you know, Craigslist or whatever to get rid of it. I'm being more mindful. Yeah, I

Ben Kaplan  30:10  

think to certain audiences too, and particularly like, you know, the sustainability piece often comes out. And we talked a lot of brands that are marketing to like Millennials or like a little bit of a younger group. And it's usually not the primary, necessarily decision driver, like, Okay, I'm gonna go get some furniture that's going to tide me over in my big move, who's sustainable first, as a first thing, but you're in this whole part. And I'm just gonna, kind of like half jokingly tell your story. If you're like my girlfriend or boyfriend, they're an idiot, no commitment phobic, they wouldn't do a commitment. And so now I'm gonna go to the place that just lifts the commitment off me, oh, wow, first and oh, I can also feel good about now making a commitment to the planet to while I'm doing this. So there's sort of that process of I have the use case, oh, I'm driving value. And oh, you know, here's a carry on top that I can feel good about obviously furnishes the is the choice for me,

Evelyn Krasnow  31:01  

I love that. And I think that intelligent consumption piece as sort of like, again, to use your word like the kind of surprise when after, like, oh, and I feel better about it, you know, it's a great feeling to have, I think this is stainability first piece, actually, that was one of probably my, you know, when I joined Belkin, I came on to launch, it was actually an energy efficient power business. They were power products that had intelligence switches, and things like that, that would turn off to save power, and they cost a bit more, it was an absolute failure. Like, I thought, Oh, my God, of course, like everyone wants to save energy, everyone's going to spend more on this, but as a primary value prop at that time, anyway, it was hard to do convincingly, but the storytelling behind it was very compelling. And then through that experience, and through the success, I guess, of that failure, I was able to kind of grow my role at Belkin, and, and, you know, lead global marketing for for all of the other, you know, cables and switches and surge protectors and all of those other pieces. But it was, I think, is a primary message, there are some brands that have have it at their core, and I think furnish it is at the core of our business model. But I don't know if it is necessarily at the core of all of our consumers purchase decisions from what we have found in the data, it's exactly as you said, the flexibility, the convenience, the money saving piece, and then this added benefit of and it's good for the earth, that is the pull through.

Ben Kaplan  32:44  

Maybe as a final topic we could talk about is another trigger for engagement that we can use is being really relevant locally, geographically hyperlocal. And I know you've used that at furnish and certainly have campaigns that are focused on an area, how do you think about that overall, as an another driver of engagement of just being really relevant to someone where they are?

Evelyn Krasnow  33:08  

You know, that's a really interesting question. And I think for people who have managed global brands, like, you know, a Belkin, you know, seasons are different in Australia than they are in New York, you know, so that's something about what you're showing in the backdrops. I had things simple human, where the size of an average trashcan in Texas is very different than the size of an average trashcan in Japan and making content that feels

Ben Kaplan  33:31  

is everything. Is everything bigger in Texas. Is that true?

Evelyn Krasnow  33:37  

I would say so I would say,

Ben Kaplan  33:39  

I didn't know. Okay, got it. You're saying it's locally different in these areas, how they experienced and what the preference is,

Evelyn Krasnow  33:45  

right. And then, you know, bird, I think was a great example, too, because we were really, you know, that was probably my first experience of really properly hyper hyper local as like, you know, these scooters, that people were picking up and riding had very different regulations, city, by city, even city by city in different countries. So that was a great experience to figure out what can you do to engage with community stakeholders to make sure that people really knew how to park things appropriately, what were the rules of the road and doing what you could to get good compliance and good behavior and hopefully, also greater utilization so that you're really putting these scooters in a place where people can use them are having having fun and doing the job of getting from point A to point B in a way that is, you know, sustainable and enjoyable and of course safe and then I think with furnish you know, we're not yet a national brand either. So feeling like we are the service of choice for people in New York or people in Austin feeling like you can be locally recommended but also I think that also speaks to the to having local teams who know the brand and know the products like it's a little bit different, and this is something that I this is a Just a part of the story that I feel like I'm still working on, on figuring out how to tell when someone is moving your stuff, they obviously care about it. But it's your stuff with furnish all of our warehouse and delivery people, the refurbishers, like they're furnished products, and they're going to at some point, unless you're buying at your, they're coming back to us. So they really know how to assemble these, they really are also pretty careful about how they're moving them, because they know they're going to have to come back and someone's going to need to sand out that thing. So I think there's also that kind of local knowledge, but that sort of product expertise. And then also, I think, from a from a market experience, ideally, you know, knowing even just how many deliveries you can schedule in a day, and what time windows to provide so that you can arrive in a time window that that makes sense and is as likely for people and then I'm also a very, very big believer, and like local business partnerships, the same thing we're talking about with local influencers, but how do you, you know, is it okay? I mean, even something which seems kind of low phi, but like, we made these little coasters that we put in local coffee shops with QR codes that people can scan just to kind of say, hey, we support you, we know you're getting coffee here. I don't know, it just, it feels nice. It feels like you're a part of the fabric of of the neighborhood. And and I think when you can do that in a way that resonates with people, they like it, people like local I like local.

Ben Kaplan  36:25  

And I think the the other thing that you do is if you layer enough of these triggers together, so you're culturally relevant for what's going on. When timing wise, you've got, you know, kind of a storytelling trigger or context or a use case. So you're resonating that way you have, you know, something surprising, that's different, that just gives people a laugh or a chuckle. Plus, you layer local on top of that, then any one doesn't have to, you know, be the driver of everything. But you put that all together, you can get lift through all of that. And then you can turn a campaign that was okay, into a campaign. That's one incredibly successful in the market, but two is potentially scalable. And then that being the holy grail for anyone who's going to grow a market is gonna grow locally is like localized, but massive scale. Ideally, you figure out a recipe for that. And then you can, you can do that. So, Evelyn Kraus, now cmo furnish as a final point, what is for someone else that would love your career path or career track? What what is your recommendation? What kinds of experiences, what kinds of opportunities, what should they do for their next two to five years?

Evelyn Krasnow  37:34  

Boy, that's a big one. I mean, I feel like I should you, you probably have great, great advice there, too. I'm curious what your advice is. I mean, I, you know, I mean, I think we are all marketed to you know, throughout the day, and I think you might have experience that may feel like it's not traditional. And I think there's always a way to use it, I think you can always draw on it and find a way to make it relevant. And I think I've I've also found just in my own career, you know, it's hard, but especially at a startup, you have to remember that progress isn't linear. When you're starting out, or depending where you are in your career. It's like, Hey, I'm on this path, it's going great. Oops, you know, and the same thing can happen with a campaign, you know, things are sort of going it feels like oh, my gosh, we've unlocked the key to the universe, and then all of a sudden, no one's clicking on your ad anymore, or, you know, something goes awry, or your budget changes, or there's some issue with the product, and you have to kind of shift gear. So sometimes progress is is can be a step back, or it can be a pause. But I think it's still progress. I think remembering that and drawing on that experience, at least for me, you know, I found it to be really helpful at times where, you know, I might otherwise think, how is this relevant? Or how is this going to help me and I think the more we remember that and the more we can figure out how to take something away from from every experience, the more successful we can be, and I think it also just helps you be more positive in life in general.

Ben Kaplan  38:53  

For Evolent Krasno, CMO of furnish storytelling is both an art and the heart of everything she does. If you do this well, you can find the hidden meaning, emotion, and even joy in everything from the latest tech to surge protectors, trash cans, and temporary yet stylish decor. Remember, keep your message simple. And don't be afraid to get a little creative in delivering a compelling call to action, and ask for your marketing career. Evelyn believes that sometimes taking a step back or pausing in your career can still mean progress. As Steve Jobs once said, you can't always connect the dots looking forward. You just have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. So be an experienced collector like Evelyn and always find the beauty and joy in marketing and perhaps in life as well. For top CMO. I'm Ben Kaplan.

‍