TOP CMO: Amy Tunick, National CineMedia - 'Unleashing Consumer Experience'

Ben Kaplan  0:01  

So welcome Amy tunic to top CMO, you're the CMO of national cinemedia, which is billed as the largest cinema advertising network in the US. So certainly, you're the head marketer at an organisation at a company that's in some really interesting times, whether that's COVID related, whether that's all the other types of screens, channels ways that content is distributed. So first of all, are you getting any rest? Are you getting any sleep?

Amy Tunick  0:33  

Thank you, Ben. Great to be here. No, I'm totally exhausted. But I love it. I thrive on it. And it's a fascinating time to be at the intersection of movies and pop culture, advertising technology, innovative ways to do marketing, content, storytelling, so I'm loving it, but totally exhausted.

Ben Kaplan  0:54  

And you come from advertising as your background worked at, you know, advertising agency for many years. But what's interesting about your background is you really focused on non traditional channels, meaning if we're not just going to buy like a broadcast ad spot, we're not just going to do a print ad, if we're going to do you around in the early days of influencer marketing before we really knew what that was the early days of experiential marketing before everything became an experience. So talk about how that led to what you do now, and specifically monetizing, you know, content movies that are on the big screen.

Amy Tunick  1:29  

Great, thank you. Yes. So I, I've always loved entertainment. And my first job was at the William Morris Agency in the mailroom, as an agent trainee where I really kind of soaked in the whole business side of the entertainment industry. But yes,

Ben Kaplan  1:45  

it's kind of romantic version is like ground zero and the entertainment industry, I like the William Morris mailroom. Oh, well, you were like Aaron was clogged for that job to deliver the mail.

Amy Tunick  1:54  

That's right. That's right, I got a I got a degree. And then I promptly started delivering checks and faxes, and, you know, scripts, and you know, people's mail. But it was great, because it was all about soaking it in meeting people learning the ins and outs of the entertainment business, I didn't want to move to LA. And ultimately, if you're not going to move to LA, it's very hard to be successful there. But I spent about four years at William Morris, before I went over to grey, and the majority of my career, I was at grey, the global ad agency. And what I did, there was what you were saying earlier, I ran a department that was essentially the non traditional integrated marketing group there. We did everything outside of traditional ads. If it was a talent request, if it was about an event, if it was a sponsorship, activation, grassroots sampling, strategic partnerships, cause marketing, all the things that it would be like a creative, we'll come up with an idea. And they'd say, how do we do this? Let's call Amy. And I'd say we can make it happen. And then I turned to my team and say, How are we going to do it? Oh, we'll figure it out. But we really love to kind of be the team, that if you could dream it, we can make it happen. And very, you know, first mover advantage, first time, things were ever done. And a lot of the work that I did it grey was about integrating campaigns where it was one simple idea that lived across all of these different channels. That's so obvious today, and everybody does that now. But in the in the early 2000s, it was not as obvious and took a lot of education, to kind of get different folks within the ad agency world to understand that there were other ways to do things besides just you know, creating a TV spot or a printer.

Ben Kaplan  3:38  

Right? Well, and did you find that you were was this? You know, exciting? Because this was experimental, you were trying a lot of things you were able to invent? Or did you feel like, and I don't think it's so much this way today, but there was sort of like advertising and marketing campaigns were very TV centred, you know, maybe TV first, then a bit of print, then like everything else. Right now, it's probably different than anything digital has taken a lot away from TV. But did you feel like you were on the periphery? Or you were this extra lane? That was kind of like a nice to have growing up in this or? And then at what point did that change?

Amy Tunick  4:13  

Yeah, that's exactly what it was like, you know, we we did a lot of cool and sexy things. But we were definitely an afterthought, a lot of times a campaign would be developed all the way and then they turn to us and say how can we get some PR out of this? How can we make this you know, after the fact and so I would say that there was a major shift that started happening, and it was really internal at grey. I'm sure it was happening at other agencies as well, where I had some relationships with some really amazing creatives who kind of understood the value of baking ideas with the PR in mind or with the entertainment partner in mind or with a celebrity that would be very hard to get in mind from the beginning and how can we build those parts out before We pitch the idea to the client. And I would say that in, in 2011, there was a campaign, it was called Project imagination. And it was for Canon cameras. And this was the breakthrough for me. And for sort of everybody at grey, I believe, at the time, where the idea was very simple. It was what if consumer photos could inspire a Hollywood film. And at that time, the Hollywood of that was Ron Howard, we did a big partnership with Ron, he came on board, and we invited consumers to enter this photo contest in categories. And Ron essentially sewed together the winning photos into a script and ultimately produced a film. That film went on to shortlist at the Academy Awards in the live action short film category. And we had all sorts of bells and whistles around it, you know, a sponsorship of Tribeca, and Sundance experiential activations, a big film premiere at the Museum of Natural History. But it was an of course a TV spot and a cinema ad with national cinemedia, if you can believe it. But the idea was simple. And all the channels brought it to life. And I was at the core of that programme. And it went on for multiple years with Canon great client great brand. And that was a game changer, because then other brands that grey and other teams started to say, I want to project the imagination, how do I how do I get one of those? And I think that's when me and my group started getting invited in earlier into the briefs. And, you know, those those campaigns won awards, and that always also, you know, gets people to, to raise their eyes and sort of look over and say, how do we do that better?

Ben Kaplan  6:34  

Sure. Well, and I think it's, you know, looking back at that I used to think he said 2011 2012, from 2022 point of view, it doesn't really sound that crazy, right? These kinds of things are done all the time with influencers. I mean, we have one of our clients, top worldwide artists who were like trying to put together with some influencers, like a robot flashmob at the Burj Khalifa, the tallest building in the world in Dubai. And, you know, it's not, it's not crazy when we started working on this, right? It's like, okay, yeah, let's, let's, let's get some people let's, let's put us together, we can do this. But so, so much has really shifted. So now, bring us the present day. So now you're in charge of marketing for one of these non traditional channels, really advertising on cinema screens, cinema or movie releases, is is regarded. We can we can ask him, it's still regarded as one of those like cultural moments as one of those big things. It's on the big screen, right? Even actors and others in Hollywood, right? It's like, if you're on the big screen, right? Like you've made it your small screen, not quite as much. So how do you start thinking about that as a non traditional channel? But then one that is hugely affected? You know, by by COVID? And then the aftermath of COVID?

Amy Tunick  7:52  

Yeah, sure. So one big pivot for me was leaving grey, moving into the media industry, and then coming over here to National City media, so we can we can talk about that later. But to answer your question, you know, the movies, movie business has been around a very long time. And, you know, over the many, many decades, there would always be a new invention, or some crazy thing that would happen that would make people what is are the movies gonna stay is this going to mean that we're not going to go to the movie theatre anymore, and time and again, whether it was the VCR or the DVR, or, you know, being able to buy your tickets in advance and know what seat you're gonna, you know, send, all of those things have happened, and people still love going to the movies, no matter what COVID be damned. And, you know, we did have a very rough couple of months there, I think it was about six or eight months that the theatres did shut down, during COVID. But, you know, here we are, in 2022. And July, just crossed a billion dollars, the month of July had a box office of $1.1 billion. And it's been, that's the first month since I think, late 2019, that that's happened. And so the good news is that, you know, the audiences are back and if the studios put content in the theatre, that immersive big screen Unskipable content experience is something that consumers are willing to pay for. And they'll pay for it in a recession too. Because it's an it's still an affordable form of entertainment. For me and my career. You know, I look at cinema advertising and what we're trying to tell the world is it's not actually so non traditional anymore. We our premium video inventory and with the decline of linear and the challenges with advertising on the streamers we are we are right there on your media plan as a way to extend your reach your scale and incrementally get your audience especially the younger audiences into your media mix. So you know, we look at ourselves as pretty, hopefully pretty traditional today. The cultural side of it is what's really Cool and non traditional. And, you know, when you see a Top Gun or a Jurassic World, or some of these shoot, you know, Spider Man or the Batman, these these giant giant films that everyone is anticipating talking about buzzing about, you know, conversing on social, and then they buy their ticket and then they tell their friends and they see it with their friends. It's just, it's different than sitting on your couch and watching a great movie on a streamer. It really it's just a different vibe and experience. And so even the streamers are looking at using the utricle releases as a way to drive conversation and cultural impact with their biggest investments. So there's pretty much nothing like going to the movies.

Ben Kaplan  10:44  

Okay, well, and then I think Tom Cruise you mentioned Top Gun was famous for demanding that the release not be released on a streaming platform, and they held it for I think, a couple years waiting for that as well. And and of course, it was a it was it was a big hit. So how do you think then about like the aftermath of COVID, let's say, you know, we had the big dip in movie theatre attendance. You're a marketer. So your job is to get more and more advertisers to look at cinema screens as as a great channel for them to your point, not a extra channel, but like a primary, maybe a premium channel? How has it been the sort of the decrease of content in theatres where you know, a certain number of Netflix or Amazon or buying up movies or spending big bucks, they want it on their platform? And maybe they're open to doing a theatrical release? First, how do you think about that? Because that directly impacts the the inventory you can sell? Yeah,

Amy Tunick  11:41  

that's a great question. So coming to NCM, national cinemedia, I was coming in, really, in this recovery phase, I joined the company about a year ago. And at first, it was worrying about the audience's coming back, we're not worried about that anymore. Because to your point, when the content is there, you know, they they go, the biggest challenge coming from COVID was just the backup and the delays on productions that the studios are experiencing. So you know, there are the streamers and all the content in the world. And then there's, you know, the content that you can view that short form on Tiktok, or YouTube. But when it comes to sort of that premium, the movies like, you know, the longer form movie experience, it really is difficult for us when there's less content in the theatres, so the same amount of blockbusters are there, which is great. It's the the smaller films that kind of filled in the gaps, the the human interests, the dramas, the the ones that were targeted to more niche audiences versus the young 18 to 34 year olds that we reach every single day. And that's sort of been the area that's a little slower to recover, or just, they're they're backed up, they haven't really made the same level of investments, they're, we're very hopeful. And it looks really good for the next three to five years, that the studios are ramping back up. And, you know, we will get back to the level or the number of films, I should say that will be released theatrically. So it's less about the streamers and more just about the impact COVID had on the production industry, that I think has been slower, the advertisers are coming back, we're absolutely thrilled. And you know, following this year's big upfront, you know, broadcast upfront, selling season, you know, we're really, really primed for, for the future.

Ben Kaplan  13:31  

So what is the how much of your time if you're going to, you know, convince your ideal advertisers, how much of your time is spent selling the medium being like, hey, you know, this is an important medium, this is a premium medium, and you need to kind of focus there, how much of the time is spent, you know, selling, I know your solution that your solution is made of, and how much of the time is spent just adjusting the integrated marketing mix. Like they've got you in there. But you're at X percent of the budget, and you want to be at y percent of the budget, like how much do you have to just like education? Do you have to do not not overall, but in the era of sort of post COVID?

Amy Tunick  14:09  

Yeah, that's a great question. I would say that for the first six to eight months that I was here, it was a lot of education, mainly because advertisers did have to make a pivot, even longtime advertisers with national cinemedia. You know, when the movie theatres weren't open, they made changes. And then also, as you know, there's a lot of turnover in the CMO world. And so there were a lot of new clients. And there was a lot of reeducation about the medium overall. But we're I think we're kind of past that. And now we're at the other point that you mentioned, which is, you know, Cinema should be a larger part of your media mix. And as they look at, you know, US versus all the many, many places that brands can spend money today. The pie isn't exactly getting bigger, but yet it's getting sliced a lot thinner. There's just so many choices for brands to A, the beauty of what we offer is, we are one of the last brand building mediums out there. You know, I think brands would say, Oh, the, you know, the ultimate end game is is advertising in the Superbowl, or advertising in the Olympics or, you know, maybe the Oscars. But those linear 10 poles, you know, Super Bowl is still huge, of course, but they have declining audiences. And not only that, but who we reach our young, diverse 18 to 34 year olds who really aren't watching linear in the first place, they probably never had a cord to even cut. And one of the stats that was a game changer for us in our sort of selling season is if you look at Spider Man that opened up last December, right in the heart of Omicron, by the way, opening weekend, Spider Man, there were more 18 to 34 year olds, just that opening weekend than watch the Super Bowl this past February, there's a million stats like that the scale and the reach of cinema every weekend, just crushes all of these other mediums and the brand building nature is is there, we can also do all of our performance marketing, and we rolled out some new data products earlier this year that are that are amazing. But it's really both, you know, we've got sort of the more specific KPIs and measurement that you need and the attribution, but we also can use our medium to just tell those beautiful, impactful big new brand stories too.

Ben Kaplan  16:30  

And so put maybe your prior hat on for a second when you when you weren't at at national cinemedia. And you were just trying to make cultural moments, relevant moments, you know, these sort of like kind of like, kind of tentpole moments for a brand. What are you drawing upon all of that? What is your advice for just brands that that want to create more of these how to think about them, regardless of if they you know, advertise on your network movie theatres or not? How should they think about creating these ownable moments that really build buzz and the cultural conversation?

Amy Tunick  17:07  

Yeah, you know, I think there's, there's a couple of ways to do it. Certainly aligning with powerful IP is, is a good one. That's what we're selling all day long here at NCM. You know, whether it's advertising around the highly anticipated Black Panther Wakanda forever, or avatar two, or any of these huge films that are coming out. But in between grey and national cinemedia, I spent several years at Warner media. I joined it when it was Turner, obviously, we were bought by a TNT a measure on bought and now it's Warner Brothers discovery, so a lot of evolution. But when I was there, I really worked for CNN on the new side of the business. And we did have 10 polls as well, although news is a very different beast. But the content studio that I worked in called courageous studios, we will try to create these cultural moments by just really truly original impactful ideas that had never been done before and told the story in a way that would get consumers excited. One such example was actually the client was Hulu. And it was their season three of The Handmaid's Tale, and they were trying to drive tune in for that. And we had an insight that was all about, you know, it was female empowerment is really what their brief was about. And the insight was that if you look at all across the country, the number of statues that honour people, and in New York specifically, there were 140 statues in New York, and five of them were women. And so we drew upon that to sort of even out the number of female representations sort of tied in with Hulu and The Handmaid's Tale. And we created an experiential marketing programme, where we basically erected the missing 145 Female statues, and that was a campaign for The Handmaid's Tale and that kind of just breakthrough very original idea based on an insight or a fact that's little known, but very personal to so many people. That's the way to drive a cultural moment. And ultimately, we were promoting a property and a brand that had some inherent cultural relevance and conversation to it. And so it's about aligning those stars, telling those stories in interesting ways, and doing never before done things. And that's what I like to do in my career.

Ben Kaplan  19:24  

Sure, well, you know, one of the things that that we think a lot, but we're a global marketing agency, and our formula for moments that sort of viral moments is three parts simple, surprising and significant. It's got to be simple enough that people get it pretty fast, but it's hard to spread it if you can't even understand it. It's got to be surprising why we've sort of seen it all before. We've, you know, we expect it Oh, isn't that like the one thing they did for the other thing? And yeah, it's like that and then significant. You can be simple and surprising. But if you don't say something significant, then it does and have lasting power doesn't doesn't have rested resonance. So one question for you is, how do you think about timing? For all of that? Typically, advertising workflow is we're like, who's our persona we want to reach? What's the message we want to reach with them? And then how are we gonna flight it to reach them? But what role is timing in sort of building buzz viral moments? And in creating that by timing it right?

Amy Tunick  20:27  

Timing is everything, Ben, I think that's such a, first of all, I love your three S's there. But yeah, the timing, not just of when to do something, and how to plan it in such a way, that it's really the breakthrough thing that everybody's talking about. But also, you know, it's, it's really important to try to be quick, you know, I found, for instance, you know, Ryan Reynolds, and his agency, and the work they've done is so quick, he's kind of broken the advertising model, by being able to respond to cultural conversations so quickly, the peloton AD, the way that that all blew up last year was a great example. For me, the other thing I like to do when it comes to timing is I'm a planner, I'm an operator, I am a kind of long view person. And so being able to figure out all of the steps and the exact phases that are really going to hook people in and when to give them this message, and then that message, and when that call to action has to result in this and that, you know, looking at things through the lens of how it all operates holistically. And when are you going to get the biggest bang for your buck? When should that PR story go out? How do you know when it should be an exclusive or just a release on the wire? You know, where do we get the tweet that's going to sort of rock the world? Where does that fit in? You know, all of that is so critical. And then, of course, with movies, you know, look when the studios move, film, date, film release, that that can mess with us. And it messes with our clients flights. And it messes with the way that we're going to market during that quarter. But timing is everything. And I think you have to really, you know, be in tune to the plan B and Plan C should something happen. You know, if a big news event happens, right when you're about to launch something, and it's not a sensible message due to whatever the news event was, you got a hold, you got to be unafraid to hold because the wrong timing can be a disaster.

Ben Kaplan  22:23  

Sure. Well, and I think it's, it's interesting. I think sometimes people ask me all the time, one of the things people don't realise is our agency, we own a website called National today.com. What It Is it aggregates all of those quirky viral holidays in the world, like I'm talking about National Dog Day, National Cat Day, National tequila Day, National Margarita day. And so as people was asking, like, what's the power in these days? Like, why? You know, it's Taco Tuesday, you can go have tacos with your friends anytime you want. What is it about Taco Tuesday, there's like something else where it's like, yeah, like, it's something with timing and connection. And like, you know, it's like, you can go talk with your friends with, oh, it's Taco Tuesday, let's go have some tacos, let's get together like, this is great. That sounds great. There's something different about that experience, than just going to have tacos with your friends. And you're trying to kind of bottle it up for the movie experience, too, right? There's something different about doing that, either, even if that is something about connection, bringing together being there to in a moment that somehow we're wired for.

Amy Tunick  23:27  

Totally. And I mean, I think that shared experience is really the key. That's one of the things people like about going to the movies, right? It's a shared experience, even if you go alone, if you see a horror film, you want to watch it on your couch, you want to share that experience with other people. So you're all doing annoying and freaking out at the same time. I think the Taco Tuesday example is another perfect way to look at that. It's, it's you know, especially following these last couple of years with the pandemic, you know, people crave that personal connection, that in person experience and being able to do something as simple as you know, a tacos with a friend. It makes it that much better. And then there's the FOMO. And then there's the social media piece of it right? If you didn't take

Ben Kaplan  24:09  

you didn't go talk with you see all your friends just having the time of their life. You're like, oh, man, I should have gone to Taco Tuesday.

Amy Tunick  24:14  

Exactly. Exactly. So you're missing out, right?

Ben Kaplan  24:17  

Sure. Sure. Well, and I think one of the things that's interesting is so a national today.com We've seen our traffic spike up during the pandemic. So we get about 10 million visitors a month looking for these holidays, we created, you know, national peppermint bark day for William Sonoma, we created an endless breakfast day for Denny's. And so what's been interesting is you have these theatrical releases as this moment. And now we have brands even like let's create any moment we can to bring two people together and and have, you know, the moment where we deserve to be in the cultural conversation. So I think this idea of, of, how do we have a reason to be discussed however we do it becomes important when there's a lot of noise and and certainly a lot of stuff going on whether that's COVID, or inflation or war in Ukraine or all of that, too.

Amy Tunick  25:11  

Absolutely. And I think you know one other thing about, you know, our show our pre show that we sell to advertisers and we create and entertain moviegoers with it's called Nuvi. And in addition to brands being able to just put their their ads or their stories up there, we have our own content that capitalises on the timing and the shared experience. So we've created a lot of IP within Nuvi different ways for brands to sponsor shows within our show, or organically integrate their brand. And that's all happening right before the experience that these people have gone to buy a ticket to sit there to share with their friends. So, you know, we're trying to create more moments, more special moments that make everything that we, you know, bring to our clients are more impactful in terms of how they reach their audience. And you know, again, it's it's these shared special experiences between people the human connection. So that's what they remember. And that's why our recall is so great.

Ben Kaplan  26:07  

So how does the national cinemedia marketing playbook work? Like, how are you reaching out to people? How are you getting in front of the right audience? Are you targeting CMOS? This is a good good podcast for you to be on. Other folks, like how do you get the word out? How do you spread the word what is your just like, you know, weekly, or monthly or quarterly KPIs look like?

Amy Tunick  26:28  

Yeah, sure. So obviously, b2b company or, you know, targeting brands, and marketers and agencies, those that could be all different kinds of agencies. So you know, while we primarily partner with media agencies, and the Big Five holding companies, I come from the creative agency background, right. So we're, you know, we're really trying to talk to anybody that works with brands, that makes marketing decisions, from the CMO down to you know, the more junior creative or, you know, PR person that is, has an influence over a brand's marketing decisions, in terms of the cadence, you know, so we are definitely focused on that broadcast upfront selling season, but we also sell on a calendar front, then we also tap into the scatter market. So in terms of just the standard ways that at times, and, you know, moments that people are looking to buy media, whether it's a full year commitment, or quarterly or last minute, and then we also are putting out, you know, packages that are around the temples that we have, which are the big will condos and avatars of the world, as well as looking ahead. So I mentioned the IP that we've created within new VR pre show, we work with a lot of influencers and talent to create content that is relevant and exciting and building buzz for the upcoming releases. For instance, we have a show called new V verse, which is influencers, mainly Tiktok, and Instagram, who are really experts or passionate about the superhero films, the Marvel and the DC releases, and they are super hyped up to talk about what they can't wait for and what the buzz and the rumours are on the internet around, you know, the next upcoming films, and we create content around that with them. And then we put that content, you know, in our new V pre show, and brands can sponsor or integrate or work with that talent as as part of the way they operate with us. So we have that scheduled out for the whole next year. Same with other mini shows within our show like that. So a lot of the work that I'm doing is a hybrid of short term, what happened this weekend at the box office? How do we capitalise on that with the social posts and the messaging that goes out to clients right now? What are we looking at for this quarter? And then what are we looking at all the way for next year through the end of 23. So it's a lot of juggling and a lot of sort of b2b, but then also staying focused on NCM, and our brand and our brand reputation and building that up through different types of communications and channels. We do, we have a big partnership with Ken Lyons, the Cannes Festival of creativity, and cm is the US representative for Ken. And so we do a lot of things with them. We help select the juries, we run the young lions competition, we tell different stories around the importance of creativity and one of my goals and one of my KPIs is to elevate NCM to be seen as more of a creative media company versus a transactional media company. So I've got a lot of balls in the air. And it's sort of a hybrid of superduper short term all the way to super long term and just juggling that to make sure that we you know, can prove success,

Ben Kaplan  29:45  

and how you think about metrics in this both your own metrics and the metrics for your clients, your customers. And I'll give you one example. I was talking with the CMO at Ben and Jerry's, and he He was saying that, you know, because Ben and Jerry's is a company that's focused on the social good. One of the most impactful things they did was in people's like annual review, they put in a KPI like how much social good did you do? And that became something, you know, if you're gonna review you want to promotion and stuff like that alters everyone's behaviour, like, oh, man, I'm gonna be judged, like, how much social good did I do? Okay, I better do some stuff. So I'm ready for that. So sometimes metrics are interesting, because metrics can change behaviour is one of the fastest things you can do if you don't have time to train all that you just put a metric in, and people and people, especially really good people, talented people will match it. So how do you think about metrics for yourself? metrics for your clients or customers? And getting people to use a metric that you want?

Amy Tunick  30:40  

Yeah, absolutely. Well, my strategy, you know, I mentioned I'm, I'm the first CMO, actually at national cinemedia. And the marketing team, prior to me was really not a b2b focused team, it was much more b2c, targeting the movie goers. And I came in and I said, Wait a minute, but our business model is selling advertising. So we're going to totally reorganise and integrate the marketing team and all the facets to be as aligned with sales as we can be, and to really ensure that sales success and our success are completely intertwined. So one metric, of course, is helping drive revenue, and you know, doing as much as we can with some of the ideas that I was mentioning earlier modernising but yet monetizing our pre show through different kinds of content, different kinds of opportunities for brands to get on board, and different ways that we tell our story in the advertising community. So that metric will be revenue, and how do we contribute? And how do we align ourselves very specifically with what we did and what it drove. But the other side of it is building our brand and building the awareness of, of NCM. And really being a player in the industry. You know, I came from Warner media, which is many 1000s of people and, and NCM, is about 300 people now. And so, you know, we went through a really tough time. And so, you know, building internally our brand, you know, reestablishing the culture and the morale of the company, and then also utilising some of our long standing partnerships, like with the can lions, you know, organisation to get out there and tell our story and the metrics around that will be, you know, a couple that with Ken, in particular, it's, you know, did we drive new revenue through this partnership, did we drive new sales leads and strengthen the relationships we have with brands and agency partners, et cetera, you know, other metrics that we give to our advertisers are through our new data and intelligence platform called NC MX, which we launched earlier this year, which basically allows us to use the largest deterministic, the largest set of deterministic data around movie goers. And that's what we have to help deliver brands KPI, so we do a lot of measurement and insights. And we have a lot of new products and tools that we're using, specifically to prove out metrics to our clients. So and then finally, the PR, I just brought on a new vice president of PR and corporate communications. And, you know, it's really important that we get some of that editorial coverage, and that we find different ways to tell our stories and have legitimate trade outlets, you know, talking about NCM in the same breath as all the other media companies out there.

Ben Kaplan  33:22  

Well, and how do you think about PR, you've mentioned it several times, sometimes it's considered as not a very, it's kind of a warm and fuzzy discipline, we got our start as an agency as a PR agency before, before we grow. How do you think about impactful PR, especially given that, it seems like you know, in terms of like data driven PR, like using, in a b2b sense, you have a tonne of data on what people were doing, or what people were watching how they're consuming? How do you start using that to sort of tell your PR story, and also be alongside the, you know, other types of media companies that you want to be next to?

Amy Tunick  33:57  

Yeah, it's, I think PR is like an unbelievable secret weapon for any CMO, if it's used strategically. And your PR partner is part of the strategy from day one. So in terms of the data, you know, some of the data points that we have are just unbelievable, and yet nobody really knows them. I mentioned the Super Bowl comparison before. You know, we have all sorts of factoids, another good one is when the Batman opened in March, that opening weekend, more 18 to 34 year olds, were there watching the Batman, then the 18 to 34 year olds in the top 16 broadcast and linear shows combined for that first weekend. And so those kinds of Whoa, I didn't know that, you know, data points that helped demonstrate the reach and scale of our offer need to be shared, but not just put out in the world in a really impactful and interesting way. And so I'm partnering, bringing you know, PR into To the b2b side, and looking at how to tell the stories, and CMX, which I mentioned, which is our data intelligence platform, we're doing all sorts of partnerships with different products that help us have, you know, more and more sophisticated deliverables. And we're telling that story in PR, we had a nice write up with AdExchanger. Recently, you know, we're talking to all the different outlets to really explain what NCM x is. And we do that by making announcements around the various components and case studies that we have. One such example is Newstar, which is a new partner of ours. Another one is affinity solutions. Another one is elemental TV, where we're putting QR codes on the big screen and allowing, you know, really powerful measurement to come out of that and guarantee business outcomes. So telling those stories in a compelling simple way to the ad trades, that really wasn't something in cm was doing before. So PR is just it's your it's your friend. And it's really important. And then, of course, on the content side we've and the talent side that always helps and, you know, working with interesting companies, talent, influencers, charities, those kinds of things inherently do get a lot of buzz, but it's got to be strategic can't just do it for the sake of it.

Ben Kaplan  36:13  

Well, and one of the nice things is the field you're in, you do have these tentpole moments where like data's and insights from that, you know, the Monday after the you know, the weekend, what happened, what's contacts is a great way, I think it seems like to start a conversation and be in the news. And then also, I think these interesting comparisons, it sounds like what you're trying to do is shift the way that people think about the medium that it's not like, the Super Bowl is here. And we're here that actually if you look at it from a different lens, like we're right there with it, or we're right there with linear broadcast. And so those comparisons become important, but then also timing them with these like releases, you're in a you're in a business that has releases. So there's a reason to be in the news a lot. If you can capitalise on those releases from a PR point of view.

Amy Tunick  37:01  

Totally. I mean, certainly reporters are writing about the movies in the box office every single week, there's no shortage of analysis of just the straight cinema medium. But for us, it's about telling the story in a way that's very compelling to the advertising community. The campaign that I launched when I first joined here was NCM reimagined. And, you know, it was really straightforward and simple. But that's what we were doing a lot of reimagining who we were, who, how we talk to brands, what products we offer them, how do we make that story compelling? And we're working on our 2023 campaign now, because you can't be reimagined forever. So we got to evolve. And we got to tell the next phase of our brand story, but But yeah, I love PR as a medium as part of marketing. And I feel like it's it's really getting more and more valued as we go.

Ben Kaplan  37:54  

And what is your advice? Final two questions. First one is what is your advice for someone else with a similar background, long agency career, you jumped over to the media side, then became cmo after that, for people that want to sort of span tracks? And people do people do jump over successfully? But it's not sometimes when people are as long and agency world is as you do that? As you were they stay there? What is your advice for someone that's just like kind of thinking about their career now, and marketing wants to get to a CMO level some day that may be in the track they're on that may not be in the track they're on? How was your advice to thinking about

Amy Tunick  38:31  

that? Sure. I think, first of all, spending as much time as I did at the agency was really, really valuable. I think that you know, there's there's pros and cons and there's people love it, and people hate it. But working in an agency teaches you a lot. And it helps you understand a lot of different facets of you know, creative and how marketing works and what clients want. And, and so I recommend most people if they are interested in this to spend at least a couple of years in an agency environment. But then I also think, you know, having another sort of adjacent element of the career is important for me, I moved into media, you know, I could have gone direct to the brand side, the in house side, that's another obvious place to sort of jump from agency into the in house side of the brand. But I think having those different experiences is really important. I would not be prepared for this role of CMO at national cinemedia Had I not spent three years at Warner media in a highly sophisticated sales organisation going through its own evolution of sort of a traditional linear company to you know, evolving to streaming with HBO max. So that plus the content studio that I oversaw, those pieces were extra pieces to my puzzle that allowed me to kind of be well rounded enough and I think you Also the whole, you know, follow your passions. That's, that's, that's difficult because you don't always know what you're passionate about until you, you know, take a job and give it a shot. But for me, I was able to keep entertainment all along the way as something that I always loved, took a little stint in news there. But that kind of brought me back in to entertainment. And so you know, if there is something that really motivates you drives you that you're constantly finding, you're reading, you know, articles about pay attention, because what you need most to succeed and to, to get to that next level is that motivation and that drive. And so you have to want it and you got to work hard. And I'm a big proponent of rising people up, but they've got to do the work as well.

Ben Kaplan  40:41  

Sure. And final question is, what is your advice to other CMOS marketing leaders in industries that are maybe different from entertainment, but are still affected by macro economic factors, supply chain issues, in this case, it's for you, it's the supply of movies for other people, it's the you know, the supply of widgets, or chips or other things like that, for CMOS, that are by nature in industries where they have to be nimble, and they have to adjust. And there are sort of some factors that are outside of your control that may pop up on a Wednesday, and you didn't know about it on Tuesday, what is your advice for them on how to manage that process?

Amy Tunick  41:24  

Well, I don't know if this would be advice for Mark Pritchard, who's probably the most famous cmo out there at Procter and Gamble. But I was reading an article where he was quoted today about what brands do in difficult times such as, you know, potential recessions. And it's not about pulling back and being scared. It's about using data and analytics, to help reach as many people without waste as possible during that time, so that I found, you know, inspiring because I love when CMOS say we're not going to stop advertising, just because it's a recession, that's always helpful. And it's nice to know, the behind the scenes of that. But I think my my advice would be to, you know, really consider who your desired audience is, and how are you reaching and engaging them? You know, I think with the younger audience, which is what you know, we have in the movies, it's, it's really important to realise that there's just only so many places that you can actually reach and engage them with your message, you know, not a knock on Tiktok, or YouTube, but it's a three second view, if that, whereas, you know, we've got this Unskipable content platform, and they're there, and they're immersed, and there's no competition. And so, you know, it's like, if that's your audience, that young, diverse, you know, 18 year old, where are they? And what is the way to reach them? During tough times, because if you can focus a sort of like what Mark Pritchard says, you know, you'll you'll see success, don't pull back, just go for it and hone in and be specific.

Ben Kaplan  42:59  

Or another quote, I like I think he's told us a few times a Warren Buffett says, You don't know, or you don't find out who's been swimming naked until the tide goes out. And I think right now, I mean, if you're a marketer, that is agile is quick, is nimble, that understands your customer and can adjust well, disruptions are kind of good, right? Disruptions allow separation, disruptions allow those kinds of companies that can't adjust as fast to separate them size out and other people, you know, might just be smart enough to be standing there naked. I think. I think he's, he's an old guy who likes the metaphor, but I'm often reminded of that. So Amy tunics, thank you so much CMO, national centre media, and really excited to talk to someone who's passionate about experimenting on traditional challenges in traditional channels, I should say, and finding these tentpole moments that still can drive conversation in ways that other things can't.

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