TOP CEO: Poplin - 'The Fertility Formula' (With Alexandria DeVito)

Ben Kaplan  00:00

Hey, this is TOP CEO. The show about CEOs making tough decisions featuring CEOs from startups, scale ups and fortune 500 enterprises. TOP CEO is a business school case study telling the story behind the story, and what you can learn from it from those who have faced the fire and come out the other side. Welcome to the TOP CEO podcast.

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Alexandria DeVito  00:29

This is a new problem that we are facing where infertility is rising and is not a problem that our grandparents faced at the same level, sperm counts have dropped 60% globally in the last 40 years, about 20% of couples are experiencing some form of fertility challenges. These are massive, massive numbers. 

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Tom Cain  00:46

Imagine you're the CEO of Poplin, a revolutionary pre pregnancy wellness company standing at the intersection of science, data and human destiny, where fertility is often left to chance. Poplin emerges as the vanguard wielding proactive data driven solutions that could change the course of lives before they even begin. Yet formidable challenges cast long shadows over this audacious mission. fertility

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Alexandria DeVito  01:19

is a complete black box for people until they try you only find out if there's a problem when you're ready to concede tension and stress goes up very, very quickly.

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Tom Cain  01:28

The healthcare industry has been notoriously reactive when it comes to fertility. So how do you turn the tide? And make proactive fertility care? The new norm? How do you awaken a society to the urgency of fertility health? Long before the clock starts ticking? And how do you scale a solution bone from intimate clinical encounters to a stage that can impact millions,

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Alexandria DeVito  01:55

I had an instinct about where I was headed. I promise one day, this will all make sense. 

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Tom Cain  02:00

This is the story of Alexandria DeVito, founder and CEO of Poplin. And this is The Fertility Formula.

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02:13

First of all, Alexandria, what I love about your background and founding this company as this wasn't a sort of fly by night operation where sounds like Oh, I see market opportunity. Let's rush into this before other people get in. This was actually years in the making in the type of research that a lot of times these days law people don't do so take us through to the beginnings and why you felt like before you launch a software or a tech company, you've got to have like clinical experience? Well,

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Alexandria DeVito  02:39

I think in the health tech space, it's an incredible advantage to have both the clinical hat and the business hat. And so how I came out at that is I spent a bunch of years doing healthcare consulting, and really kind of got into the healthcare landscape, the business landscape, and then went back to school, got my MBA at Harvard, and then also did a master's in nutrition on the side. So not the most traditional move of a Harvard MBA.

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Ben Kaplan  02:59

It was everyone was saying Harvard? Are you crazy? What are you doing? People trying to make sense of it all?

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Alexandria DeVito  03:04

I think so I think I, you know, had an instinct about where I was headed. But I was like, I promise one day, this will all make sense. I'm not sure that I you know, have all of the things lined up. But I know kind of one thing will lead to the next and will lead to the next. And that's that's kind of what happened. So take

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Ben Kaplan  03:17

me back. So you were there, you were getting your MBA, you were also pursuing this area of expertise. At the same time, what was happening after that? How was that kind of influencing what would become Poplin years later.

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Alexandria DeVito  03:28

So after I finished both degrees, I then decided that I wanted to be on the front lines as a clinician. And so I left business, the business world to actually work as a as a nutritionist, and I worked in a bunch of different settings. I was in a doctor's office, I was at a high end, functional nutrition practice in Manhattan, I was at a spa. So I really kind of span the gamut. And the goal there was really to understand what was going on with with health and nutrition. And we all know that nutrition matters. And we all know that health behaviours matter. But a lot of times people don't engage with them. And I wanted to understand why. Where was this falling down what the problem was. And I also did training in functional medicine. While you know, while I was working as a clinician, and so I'm one of about 2000 people globally who are certified as a as a functional medicine practitioner. And I realised going through that entire experience that I had a lot of clients that were coming to me for fertility and friends at the same time. And so this was a very relevant topic that kept coming up over and over and over again, I wouldn't have picked it if I was, you know, choosing from a hat, but it was incredibly resonant thing. And I realised that there was a massive opportunity and I was just sitting across the table from so many people with so much heartbreak and so much difficulty and they weren't getting answers that they needed. And I had tools in my toolkit, I was running lab testing, and I was identifying problems after they had, you know, been through a year or two of fertility treatments that they're their health care providers had not identified and once we were able to collaborate and connect them with other practitioners and help them correct these issues, they were able to get pregnant. And I realised that that was an incredibly value Both thing, and that I needed to move out of the clinic and expand and scale it to serve more couples. And so that was kind of when I shifted from my clinician hat backed by business hat,

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05:08

you had a thesis that dealt with nutrition, other lifestyle elements are really important to overall health, we probably don't put enough emphasis on them, right? Whether that's nutrition or I know you were looking at things like sleep or movements or other things like that. But then to through that work, you encounter this sort of market segment fertility, which is a unique market segment, because it's almost defined not so much as fertility but as its opposite infertility, which becomes the segment. So how did you sort of apply what you knew your thesis start realising you're having conversations that infertility is an interesting area, and that there's a new take on it? Because if you focus on the fertility, rather than the infertility part, it leads you to a different time horizon, and when you might engage with a potential customer?

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Alexandria DeVito  05:54

Absolutely. So I think this is informed by you know, probably two things. One is my own bias as a relatively type a planner, organiser health optimizer individual. And so I kind of wore that wear that hat. And then I think to was looking at clients who I think had maybe a similar disposition. And, you know, I noticed that they were preparing for every other area of their life, they were preparing for careers, they were preparing for a wedding a year in advance, they were preparing for buying houses, right? There's software, there's infrastructure, there is support for every single one of these major milestones. And yet, people were showing up in my office, a year after trying to conceive two years after trying to concede having no insight, no real data into what was going on. It was the approach was let's throw some stuff at the wall and see if it sticks. And by the way, sometimes it does fantastic. And much of the time, increasingly, it's not. And so as someone who, you know, has a business background, I'm wondering, this seems like a process problem. Why are we finding these things out so late in the process? And so can we re engineer the process so that we're actually looking at things early on. And this was, you know, kind of inspired by the work that I did as a consultant, we'd go into a new client, and we'd run a set of KPIs key performance indicators, let's do a diagnostic. Let's see what we're working with before we give any recommendations. And I wonder why is this not happening with health? And certainly, why is this not happening with fertility? We have all the data points, we know the things that influence fertility, we know potential red flags, or yellow flags, why are we not screening reproductive partners at the beginning of their journey, so that they know what they're working with. And then from there, we can actually guide them on their path to getting pregnant and having a healthy baby, it just seems like a very backwards process. And so to your point, rather than dealing with fertility only in the context of infertility, let's actually treat it proactively. And so this is where we've created this new concept of pre pregnancy wellness, which is the wellness, the state of your health, you know, in the one year approximately, before you conceive, we can measure it, we can track it, and we can identify any potential issues. And that's a much I realised, that's a much more clinically effective, but also a significantly better user experience. If you approach this entire process proactively that way. This is a new problem that we are facing where infertility is rising, and is not a problem that our grandparents faced at the same level, sperm counts have dropped 60% globally in the last 40 years, about 20% of couples right now, and I believe this number is that massively under reported, are experiencing some form of fertility challenges. And so these are massive, massive numbers. And so I think we maybe not, didn't have to apply the same level of rigour as we, you know, had pre, you know, as we did for other places, but we're seeing the importance of it now. And so the way I think about education is trying to explain the the why and to port behaviour that we see elsewhere, to what we see in the fertility space, and then to give people tools to do it, right, because you can have all the best intent, you can have all the ideas, but if there aren't simple tools to make it happen, and to give you actionable feedback for what you're doing, this becomes really hard to do these things.

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Tom Cain  09:00

Fertility waits for the ticking clock, where couples are caught in a race against time, lining up the perfect window. Imagine the tension, the stress, as couples realise they want a child not tomorrow. But yesterday. With a background steeped in healthcare, Alexandria faced the herculean task of marrying medicine, with technology. Could she create something that was not just medically sound, but also a beacon of user friendliness. She thought education was the key, crafting an intricate course to guide the way but knowledge alone couldn't spark the change she sought. Next, she flirted with the idea of a coaching platform. But scalability loomed like an insurmountable mountain. Customer Feedback swirled around a cacophony of voices but no clear path emerged. And let's not forget It, Alexandria walked this tightrope alone, a solo founder, she bore the weight of every decision, every challenge on her singular shoulders. How did Alexandria conquer these towering obstacles? Did she stumble at the first hurdle? Or did she rise? Dust yourself off and steal herself for the next lap in his relentless race?

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Ben Kaplan  10:26

How do you start applying software and you had the sort of health background and training, you had the business side? But you got to figure out how to bring software to the table that I'm assuming you didn't do all of that coding yourself?

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Alexandria DeVito  10:39

I did not. I have a fantastic team, and I am honoured to work with them. So yeah, I think it's a it's a it's a wonderful question, like, how do you embed behaviour change? Or how do you embed a lot of, you know, these these pieces into into software. And so what I would say is, there's going to be many iterations of this, but what we've focused on is really starting with a starting point. So right now, fertility is a complete black box for people until they try to conceive, so they have no idea until they try. And that seems like a very inefficient system, because you only find out if there's a problem when you're ready to conceive. And most of the time, when people are ready to conceive, they're ready to conceive that day, right? Or yet, like they're like, I want to be pregnant yesterday. And so tension and stress goes up very, very quickly. And so rather than waiting and having no insight into your potential fertility, what we can do is we can actually start much earlier. And with the help of, you know, lab testing and software, we can actually look at biomarkers. And we're looking at the broadest set of biomarkers out there, we have a right now. And we're kind of constantly looking at research and expanding our tests, our largest panel has 49 Different biomarkers, which is a massive data set. And so we look at five different categories of wellness. And so we're able to see things that we haven't really been looking at. And so we can identify red flags and yellow flags. And we can track those over time. And so we can see, are the implementations that you're making actually changing your bloodwork? Are they are they changing things? So is your thyroid function improving? Is your metabolic function improving, or, you know, any vitamin deficiencies that we've identified, improving? And that gives you real time feedback, which often I find is very encouraging for people, because otherwise, it's just like, I think I'm healthy. I think I'm doing what I'm supposed to, but I have no feedback to know. And so lab testing is really wonderful for that.

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Ben Kaplan  12:22

How hard was it to try to find the right mix of a product offering for you, I mean, there's this sort of tension of any entrepreneurs, because both things are valued one is stick with it, stick with what you're doing. Other people will give up, you stick with it, you'll be successful. And that's kind of that's kind of celebrated. And then also, there's this idea of, let's fail fast, let's pivot, let's adjust the new thing. It's like lean startup mentality, let's try a bunch of stuff and get a new thing and do a bunch of little iterations, like software development. If we do it quickly. Our version 7.0 will finally have product market fit we do so how did you go about finding your product offering now? And how many iterations have you gone through and will go through to try to get to where you need to go,

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Alexandria DeVito  13:06

I would say being fairly stubborn, maybe on the problem that you're solving is important, but very flexible on the product that can solve that problem. And so I think, you know, the, the problem that we're focused on, is improving the health of parents and children through preconception care. And you know, so getting people to engage at the preconception period, because that is the point of highest impact for both parents and for babies. And so how you solve that problem is a lot of different ways. And so we've gone through 434, or five, probably iterations, and probably, you know, of major ones, but many, many fewer. So I started thinking this was an education problem. So we talked a lot about education on this call. So I thought, this is just about information, people need more information. So I created this beautiful educational course, you know, this is kind of coming from my clinical perspective. And educational courses were like, huge at the time. And so I was like, this is this is going to be great. But what I realised is that that's not enough, like education alone is not enough to get people engaged in the behaviours. And so then I thought, Okay, well, we need some sort of a coaching platform. This is, you know, a bit of kind of what I was doing, how do you scale coaching, and so sort of to look at that, but then I realised that's like, not the most scalable solution, I was repeating myself a lot with the same things, I kept seeing the same patterns over and over again. And that's where I think software can be really helpful. And so I realised we probably need kind of like the best of all these things, you kind of need education, tools and support. Okay, so that's the trifecta. So how do you build that? And so that's what we've been spending the last bit of time on. And so, you know, where we landed is there's probably a digitised journey, like a checklist, you know, this is what we have a checklist for preparing to conceive, just like you have a checklist for a wedding, or buying a house. And the first step on that journey is diagnostic testing. And so I think, there you know, we've just gotten customer feedback all along. It's kind of what's working, what's not working, and I think it's really important to pay attention to customers and customer feedback, and to try to figure out they may, they're not always going to tell you what you should build. I think that's the misconception. I always thought, Oh, they're going to tell me like what they want. No, it's kind of like, they will tell you what's working, what's not working, they'll tell you what's frustrating them, they'll tell you where they're getting stuck. And it's up to you to craft a solution from that. And so I think that was my early misconception is like, Oh, they're just going to tell me what they need. Well, they don't always know what they need, but they know where they're where they're getting stuck.

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Ben Kaplan  15:27

If you enjoy this show, you'll love TOP CMO with me, Ben Kaplan, has never been a better chance and opportunity to do that. I

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15:37

would definitely encourage marketers to be engaged in the product development process, because you're banking, your brands,

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Ben Kaplan  15:43

great moments, but it's the great brands that create movements. And that's the spirit of justice. Of course, this is the podcast where we go around the globe to interview marketing leaders from the world's biggest brands, fastest growing companies, and most disruptive startups available wherever you get your podcasts. I feel a lot of times that this female founder sounds almost like a mastermind group that could call it that, yeah, that you that you have makes a difference. And I often feel like, in some ways, even just networking, or your network is both overrated and underrated at the same time overrated because when people talk about networking, they're like, Yeah, I'm gonna do a million conferences. I mean, all these people are having drinks and, you know, do not. And it's actually easy to get very busy with that not really accomplishing a lot. And in that sense, I think it's overrated, but this other way for entrepreneurs, it's underrated in that I think there's types of people I know who they solve problems by, like tapping into their network, that is how they solve a problem. I've got this really hard challenge, who do I know who has been through a similar challenge knows someone who's been through a similar challenge can introduce me to someone else, and they leverage the power of their network. And I think that is underrated as a skill. Because there's a lot of this conference, networking glamour, it's kind of fun, in some ways to like, I don't know, be on a private island with Richard Branson chatting about this, and that. And I don't know how much of this, how much does beyond this like kind of group that you have tapping into just the collective knowledge and wisdom, important to get you to where you're going.

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Alexandria DeVito  17:21

So I think I have incredible privilege here, because I have, I do feel like I have a wonderful network, I have a network from previous jobs that I've had from schools that I've gone to. And I think that and also just local communities that I've tapped into, it's something that I lean on a lot. And I think not everyone does that. It's not a natural strength of everyone. It's not something that everyone necessarily enjoys. But I do think as you said, right, networking can be used as a dirty word. Or it can be used in a more functional way, where there's just, you know, it's just trying to help other people out that are kind of in your orbit. And I think that is incredibly helpful. And certainly communities of entrepreneurs. And I've seen this, you know, as part of the groups that I've been connected with, through through accelerators, and a bunch of other programmes that people just want to help entrepreneurs want to help other entrepreneurs out. It is something I've never seen in a lot of other places. And it's such a beautiful energy. And so I think that there's a lot to be said, for lifting one another up. In that case, I think Network is an absolute strength and competitive advantage. And

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Ben Kaplan  18:22

also that as a founder, as an entrepreneur, you have to be able to solve problems, different ways, I would almost describe as like a flexible problem solver, meaning sometimes you got to solve problems by hard work and grit, you just got to push them, sometimes you got to solve problems by what we just talked about is by tapping into a broader network of expertise. Sometimes you got to solve problems, because you've got to pivot really, really fast. And there's changing market conditions. And you'll solve it that way. Sometimes you've got to solve problems with systems and processes. But then sometimes you got to solve problems by like making a great hire, and making like a single person that their presence can transform the fate of your company. So I think this idea of flexibility in problem solving being a primary skill set that a founder or entrepreneur needs

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Alexandria DeVito  19:08

100%. I think so much of you know what, what we did in consulting was around problem solving. And so I think I gained a lot of early training in that. But I think you're right, I a CEO and a business leader, in a lot of cases is a professional problem solver and decision maker. And as a CEO, you have to operate at different levels of abstraction on a bonus minute to minute basis. And so you gave a couple of different examples there. But some in some cases, you have to be at like a 10,000 foot view when you're thinking about the strategy of your business and that you know, a couple year plan. And then you know, then I'm reviewing lab tests, and I go to, you know, the like one inch level with my clinical team. And so I think you have to be able to flex up and flex down in terms of level of abstraction and detail and be able to effectively make problems, like solve problems. And by the way, like as the CEO of a business, the only problems that get to you are the ones that are hairy. So all the simple problems have already been handled. And so it's really, you know, how do you handle the tougher problems? That is kind of what you're dealing with all day, every day, you've now

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Ben Kaplan  20:10

been in two different accelerators. What is your recommendation, overrated? Underrated? Do you recommend them as a step on the journey for the typical entrepreneur, startup founder,

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Alexandria DeVito  20:20

I participated in village Global's accelerator and NextView ventures accelerator programme. And I've had a wonderful experience with with both of them. And I think, for lots of reasons, I think accelerators are very fit for purpose. And so accelerators tend to be for earlier stage businesses. And I think in our case, we were building a new category. And so finding folks that really were, you know, willing to take a risk on this new idea. You know, as a solo founder, I think accelerators can be really good models for that. And you're also placed in a cohort with other pure founders, which are absolutely phenomenal. fellow entrepreneurs are some of the best resources for just thinking through problems and coming up with other ideas and other avenues for you to approach. So I think, I would say that, if you're considering an accelerator, there's lots of questions to ask and which is like, how many other companies are in this accelerator? What is the combination of pre programmed content versus like time with the individual partners? What is the expectation for my time commitment? What is the expectation for our relationship after the accelerator is over? So I think all of these questions are really important. And that will give you a really good sense for whether the quality of that accelerator is aligned with your interests. What

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Ben Kaplan  21:31

is your recommendation on founders and the founding team, you mentioned, you're a solo founder, that can be perceived as challenging and difficult. I think I saw a recent study of you know, maybe the most famous accelerator Y Combinator, and the idea of having sort of more founders was positively correlated with more success. Oftentimes, people say that because at least you got to, you know, you got to convince a few other people to be in the foxhole with you. And if you can do that, that often strengthens companies. So how do you view that being a solo founder versus having co founders? And what is your experience with that, which can be a lonely road?

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Alexandria DeVito  22:09

Yes, I think this is a bit personal in some senses, like, you know, I think you have to understand your personality type and how you work with other people. And I think it also depends on your network as well. So I would say that if you can find a co founder that has complementary skill sets to your own, and who you have a deep trust based relationship with that absolutely will amplify your business, you know, 10 times over than doing it on your own, in my experience, and the experience of many, many, many friends who have had co founders, whether that's one or two or multiple, it's really very rare to be able to find that combination of complementary skill sets and personalities that really jive and trust one another. And so oftentimes, co founder conflict is one of the main reasons that businesses fail. And so I think that's not talked about enough, we have this sense of, oh, we want to see co founders. And so the question I would ask is, what do co founders actually do for you. And so you said one of them, which is, you know, they're, they're able to demonstrate that you can convince other people that your idea is valid. And I think there is something to that, that means you can convince consumers, and that means you can convince investors, theoretically, I think there's also a piece of this, which is, you know, as you also mentioned, it can it can be a lonely road. And so I think I actually have a team of three other female founders that I meet with on a weekly basis. And we've been doing this for the past, I don't know, maybe three years. And they are absolutely essential to my journey, they're at a similar stage of business to me, and they are in the trenches with me. And so they know, you know, my business very well. They've gone through all the different iterations with me. And so I think they act as kind of a de facto advisory board to me. And so it makes the journey a lot less lonely. When I need resources, I go, I go to them, when I need advice and perspective, I go to them. And so I think if you have the opportunity to have other founders that are at similar stages, you can provide a lot of the functions that a co founder can provide. And so it's it's really, you know, a personal decision. And I would say, it's more detrimental. Just add someone to the team because an investor asks you to then to actually add someone to the team because you believe that they're a peer that's going to contribute to the business in the same way. And so just be very thoughtful about that decision, and have the confidence to do what instinctually you feel is best for the business.

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Tom Cain  24:21

How do you make fertility proactive rather than reactive? How do you blend the worlds of healthcare and tech to create something revolutionary? Alexandria DeVito didn't just sit and wonder. She sprang into action. She knew that waiting for couples to decide they're ready to have a baby was a ticking time bomb. So what did she do? She employed a comprehensive set of 49 biomarkers, providing real time feedback on wellness across five categories. She knew education alone wouldn't cut it. She iterated, she adapted, and she evolved her product. Combining education, tools and support, she created a multifaceted approach. That's nothing short of revolutionary, guided by customer feedback, and fought it by her network and accelerator programmes. She refined her business model to what it is today. But we don't stop at today. What about tomorrow? And what advice does Alexandria have? For those of you who wish to take on the gauntlet of business?

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Ben Kaplan  25:38

What's next? And where do you need to be? What are the next milestones? First of all coming up? Where do you hope to be in the next year, three years, five years.

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Alexandria DeVito  25:46

So what's you know, near very near term next for us is just getting the word out and sharing this concept of pre pregnancy, wellness and sharing about what we're doing at Parkland. And getting as many people to, to learn about it and to to work with us as we possibly can. And to know that they have agency over this process. I have a book coming out next year. So that's going to be all about the preconception process. So we have that on the horizon as well. So we're really excited about that. And in terms of, you know, longer term, I think we want to hear from the folks that you're listening to this or using our products, what they want to see more of, you know, this is this is an area where, you know, we've kind of built the initial testing, but there are so many different places we can take things from here, we've gotten a bunch of different requests, and we're trying to think about, you know, prioritising what's what's next. But the ultimate goal is basically that you kind of walk through the preconception process that we're going to own pre pregnancy, wellness, and we're going to walk through your journey. And by the way, like spoiler alert, it doesn't necessarily stop at the end of preconception, right, moves forward into pregnancy and postpartum. Right. There's all these important milestones at every single one of these even early childhood development, some of the things that you were talking about earlier, where everything stops from a medical perspective, but there's a lot that needs to be done. So I think, you know, we are planning to move forward, I, you know, ideally in the funnel, if that's what our what our customers want to do to take the journey with them. And then certainly expanding the products and services that that we offer to make the experience as seamless as possible. I mean, we want to make fertility fun. Again, it's a naturally fun thing. But we've taken all the fun out of it. So how do we make it fun again?

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Ben Kaplan  27:09

Okay, sure. And final question, what is your advice for those that are just on the edge of founding a company, starting a company, maybe something similar, could be a health related field could be trying to define a new category? Given your experience with this and your journey getting here? What is your advice to them on how to save a bit of time a bit of grief, get closer to your true path? From the get go? Yeah.

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Alexandria DeVito  27:35

So I would say first, that I do think there's a public service announcement here, which is that entrepreneurship isn't as glamorous as it may seem, you know, by the headlines. And so I think that it really does require a lot of grit, and persistence and discipline. And so if you're going to undergo many years of challenge, and of course, a lot of reward along with it, but challenge, make sure that you're really excited, deeply excited about the mission of what you're working on. Because I think that's one of the few things that will carry you through all of the inevitable, you know, punches in the gut, as you were talking about earlier, right, if you have to have a real tie to something bigger, and why you're doing it. And so I would start with that. And then I think probably ending where you started with Ben, which is I think testing like testing small testing early is is is possible you do not need today, you know, you can get started with a very small amount of capital, you know, put landing page tests up and hire freelancers, you can you can run early tests, it doesn't have to be perfect, but to get a sense from the market of you know, where you're headed and what could be compelling. So I would say get in there, give it a shot. Once you've decided that this is something that you want to do. And always, always, always question everyone's advice, including my own, and gut check it against, you know what feels resonant to you. Because for every rule that I know, in startups, there are at least five to 10 exceptions. And so really just take the advice but then gut check it against your own instincts.

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Tom Cain  29:06

In a world where challenges loom like insurmountable peaks, Alexandria DeVito didn't just stand at the base. She claimed she faced the universal business dilemma, how to innovate in a stagnant field, her answer, don't wait for the problem to come to you. Go to the problem. She taught us that data isn't just numbers. It's the language of solutions. With 49 biomarkers. Poplin turned ambiguity into clarity, a lesson any business can take to heart and when her first solution didn't work. She didn't give up. She iterated the lesson. failure isn't falling down. It's staying down She also knew the value of customer feedback and the power of a strong network, proving that no one succeeds in business alone. As for the future of Poplin, they're not just setting the bar. They're moving it. They're expanding their reach just as any successful business should aim to do. So whether you're in healthcare, tech or any field in between, remember this. The keys to success are action, adaptation, and evolution. And with that, it's case closed

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Tom Cain  30:43

this was brought to you by TOP Thought Leader. Find out more at topthoughtleader.com

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